Well since we all assembled here… who/what the heck was Tom Bombadil in the bestiary of Tolkein characters? Enjoyed his chapter but never understood how he integrated into the larger Tolkein universe.
i always kind of thought of him as a ‘gaia’ character, like middle earth personified… not that that really fits in with the universe either.
but then, there are other theories
http://www.speakeasy.org/~ohh/bombadil.htm
Hey Saltire, that’s right! Wouldn’t Tom Bombadil be older than Cirdan?
And when Theoden shows up at the gates of Orthanc, Gandalf tells him “When you see Treebeard, you will learn much. For Treebeard is Fangorn, and when you speak with him you will hear the speech of the oldest of all living things.”
Me: «Well, according to JeffB above, Gandalf is also one of the Maiar (though I’m not sure where he got that information), which would make him as old as Sauron.»
muppetsoup : «That info comes from ‘The Silmarillion’.»
I don’t remember reading that in the Silmarillion. Do you remember where it says that?
not offhand… but i will surely find out for you. i may be wrong, of course.
You’re right, Bombadil is probably older than Cirdan. Personally, I think he was a Maia of the people of Yavanna. But Tolkien has said that he prefers to leave Tom as a mystery.
As far as Treebeard, I don’t know. There is stuff in the Silmarillion that mentions Yavanna asking that there be something to protect the forests and the animals from wanton destruction at the hands of Elves and Men. She is told by Manwe that the Eagles of the mountains and the Shepards of the Trees will serve this purpose. He gives no timeline for when they’ll be created. But it is stated several times that the Firstborn Elves are the very first speaking beings to inhabit Middle Earth. Maybe the Ents existed before the Firstborn, but didn’t start speaking until they met up with the Elves?
When looking for info about Gandalf in the Silmarillion, you need to remember his name as a Maia is Olorin. He isn’t referred to as Gandalf in that book. I think there is mention of him in the early chapter “Of the Maiar”. I don’t remember exactly, but I think he is of the people of Lorien, or maybe Mandos. It does call him the wisest of the Maiar (though I think they call Melian that as well).
Just finished reading it again last week. But one of the summaries at the beginning of RotK (at least my copy, which isn’t handy) mentions something along the lines of, “…in which Frodo and Sam destroy the One Ring…<snip>…but as the current age ends, the Men are left with a new ring.”
What?!? When did a new ring appear? Or did I misread something?
Well, not having my books at hand, I can’t tell you where some of this stuff occurs. That being said, Saltire is right is saying that Gandalf is mentioned in the Silmarillion as Olorin. Also, IIRC, the timeline in the creation of Middle Earth beings is: 1) dwarves (then put to sleep until the elves came along); 2) ents; 3) elves; 4) dwarves awoken; 5) men. Elves teaching the ents to speak is mentioned somewhere.
I agree that Tom Bombadil was also of the Maiar. Whether you could classify the Valar and the Maiar as “living” would be a good GD topic. 
Most definitely. I re-read the LotR for the ::mumble, mumble:: time about a year ago and was struck by the level of writing for what are general considered “children’s” books. I remember reading a paragraph that contained three words I didn’t know the exact meaning for. Tolkien’s use of language is one of the reasons his works are so good.
Go here and all will be answered:
http://home.uchicago.edu/~sbjensen/Tolkien/TolkNgFaq.html
Yeah, you’re right. I think it’s treebeard himself that says how the elves come along and ‘wake up’ the Ents. Whether this is related differently anywhere else I don’t recall.
Quoth astro:
Himself, of course. Olorin has sole claim to being the wisest of the Maiar, but Melian is nothing to sneeze at (her spell was sufficient in and of itself to keep the forces of Melkor at bay). As to the Balrog’s wings, the relevant passage is in The Fellowship of the Ring, book ii, chapter 5, "The Bridge of Khazad-Dûm. On page 429 in the Ballantine Books 13th printing, it states
This looks like it’s probably to be considered figurative, and not to be real wings. Interestingly, in the paragraph immediately following, Gandalf identifies himself for the only time (that I know of) in The Lord of the Rings:
Of course, of the Fellowship, Aragorn and maybe Legolas are probably the only ones who knew what he meant, but still.
As to the Five Wizards, I remeber reading somewhere (Unfinished Tales?) that Gandalf was the only one of the Istari who suceeded in his mission. Saruman’s failure is obvious, the two Blue Wizards wandered into the East and were lost, and Radagast failed in that the mission of the Istari was to men, not beasts, though his failure was a lesser failure than that of the other three.
Speaking of balrogs - that’s probably the one character I was never able to get a good mental image of. What do you geeks think of when you read of balrogs?
kind of a smoky, black minotaur (with giant black bat wings), that snorts fire and has a whip and a scimitar.
I never had the impression that any of Tolkien’s books, aside from The Hobbit and The Adventures of Tom Bombadil were thought to be children’s books. However,
Book I of LoTR *does have a kiddie-lit feel to it for the first several chapters, which is quickly replaced by a more mature tone. For example, the preparation and events surrounding the birthday party are almost like an extension of The Hobbit, and Tolkien might well have intended nothing more at at this point. “The Shadow Of The Past” is the first indication that something much graver is afoot,
although a few kiddie-lit items still occur. The hobbits seem as small children in their dealings with Tom Bombadil;
but i would say that from Bree onward the tone is adult, in that the hobbits are speaking and being treated as mature individuals.
I think of the illustration in one of the Hildebrandt calendars from the mid-70’s. Basically a humanoid form, but terrifyingly large, with bat wings, scales, and, I think,
fangs.
Yeah, I know, you were going to say, “A snow troll, dollface, is a troll that is found in the snow”, but seriously: One of the references mentions that there were
Snow Trolls, in addition to Hill Trolls, Olog-Hai, and one or two others I don’t recall at the moment. But I can’t find Snow Trolls in any of the primary literature.
Could they be the Cloud Giants from The Hobbit?
?
Are you questioning the Giants? In The Hobbit they were on the mountainside hurling boulders – it sounded like thunder. It was during this storm that Gandalf et al. sought shelter in a cave and were captured by the goblins.