It’s the first time I respond with just exclamations points and questions marks but !!!?!?!!
They had a mix of Robespierre and Cromwell who was largely successful in turning the center of Islam into a Western country.
The current government is overly religious but it’ll go when it’s no longer delivering economic growth. The institutions are still Kemalist. Turkey is the best ally in the region and one of the most valuable members of NATO.
As for Russia, if you invade countries and keep poking at others to see how far they’ll let you go, you should expect a terse response if you do something that looks like you’re poking at Turkey.
Also, if you keep lying about this sort of incidents, at some point others won’t care what you say about these incidents.
Russia is saying that there was no communication with the aircraft. If you google it, you can find recordings of one of the warnings from the Turks that was broadcast.
Russia says that the airplane never entered Turkish airspace. It seems increasingly clear that’s not true.
Russia says that the aircraft were engaged in bombing ISIL. That’s clearly false, since the evidence that they were engaged in operations against non-ISIL opposition groups is overwhelming, not to mention that ISIL has little to no presence in Latakia.
Just to nitpick… Just the USSR, really. The Warsaw Pact did not exist when NATO was created any anyway wasn’t really a voluntary alliance the way NATO was.
Russia really seems to have some trouble with this, even accidentally landing paratroopers in another country. At what point do we stop giving them the benefit of the doubt?
Also, considering the number of warnings given, it seems like it was rather more than “a moment”.
Yes, perhaps they were tuned to Jazz FM instead of the internationally-recognized UHF (military) aircraft emergency frequency? I heard they also missed a satirical show on talk radio they had been looking forward to all day.
Turkey is a sovereign nation and has a right to its airspace. If Russia flies a military aircraft into it, for whatever reason, even by mistake, Turkey has the right too shoot it down.
Fuck Russia if they don’t have their radio communications in order. Then don’t conduct military operations so close to Turkeys borders.
Excellent. So everytime a U.S B-52 makes an erroneous entry into Russian Airspace tests Russian Airspace over the White Sea or the Kamchatka Peninsula, the, the Russian may shoot those birds down at leisure. The VVSR has a duty to defend its planes and personnel, they should also shoot down any Turkish or NATO which appears hostile. Or the Greeks should shoot down Turkish warplanes over the Agean.
Everytime a US sub is detected inside Russian waters, or even the EEZ, the Northern and Pacific Fleets may open fire; for all they know the sub is fishing there.
What joke? Russian heels were usually of the Russian No 1 type, which you clearly are not.
If it enters Russian airspace, yes, that it a risk.
They can’t shoot down a plane in international airspace because the oppositing pilot gives them the stink-eye. But if one plane is acting hostile, and there’s a decent reason to believe that another aircraft is going to attack, every nation has the inherent right to self-defense.
You should bear in mind that Russia and China are pretty much the worst offenders in aggressive intercepting unarmed aircraft in international airspace. They conduct reckless maneuvers that are tremendously unsafe.
Now you ought to know your whole argument is crap because you can’t even present a persuasive argument without silly straw men like this. Nobody claims that EEZ are territorial waters, and nobody claims fishermen should be shot at. Everyone but you understands the protected right of nations for peaceful transit, which is clearly explained in the Law of the Sea.
But again, Russia appears to be an outlier for this, given how it’s submarines have regularly invaded Swedish territorial waters, and I note that the Swedes have sometimes saw fit to try to blow up the invading sub.
This is the SDMB. You really ought to know better than to bring such weak, silly arguments to the table here.
Maybe you should take a leave of absence from the SDMB, until your reading comprehension is at a perhaps 5th grade level, since my post expressly differentiated the EEZ from territorial waters, and in the later the State is entitled to police vessels.
And maybe, stop believing propaganda put out by NATO on face value.
Erdogan is an Islamacist who is trying to destroy the secular government of Syria. Turkey is ISIS and the other terrorist organizations rear base. Most supplies come through Turkey quite openly; sometimes hundreds of trucks a day. The US knows about it, of course, but finds ISIS useful to destroy Assad to weaken Iran’s geopolitical positions in the area. Russia is bombing terrorists on the Syrian side of the border. Apparently a Russian plane crossed briefly into Turkish territory. Everyone involved, including NATO, knows that there was no threat to Turkey. Under these circumstances, the protocol is to issue a diplomatic protest, not to shoot down the plane. Plus, one pilot was apparently murdered. This was a true outrage. If this had happened to a US plane, there would be war drums all along the Potomac. Erdogan wants to create a situation requiring more support from NATO and especially the US, which is publicly against ISIS, but actually supports it through its proxies.
Erdogan is not an “Islamist” or “Islamicst”. He is an old fashioned Turkish nationalist, the kind that Ataturk put down and replaced with “Westernisation”. Erdogan wants Turkey to once again be a power in the region and has made efforts at that for most of his time in power. Neo-Ottoman has been used to describe him.
If he had dropped dead of a heart attack in 2013, he would be remembered rightly as the greatest Turkish leader since Ataturk. Instead, his last two years have been basically one fuck up after another.