That would be weird, since his heritage is Jewish…
I think the special irony of this thread is that it showed up when the most religious president in decades is in office, and is a Democrat, and he followed the least religious president in generations, and he was a Republican. Seems like it’s the Republicans who should embrace atheism, or at least celebrate the seven deadly sins, since their favorite guy is the epitome of all seven.
Me too. I’m an atheist about what most people I run into seem to mean by God, and an agnostic about some of the other versions; and I’m not in the least interested in being part of a political party that said ‘no religious people allowed!’ (Or, of course, in one that said ‘only religious people allowed’, even if they’d let me in.)
– I am also wondering whether the OP has been reading this thread, and thinking about it; and if so what their thoughts are.
You would not vote for an openly atheist candidate who favored all of your secular positions?
Why not?
I’m curious, as well; @Velocity has certainly been active on the boards since his last post in this thread, but it appears that he may have lost interest in this one.
As with most denominations and ideologies, there are many variations. I do not challenge your point.
However, if you look at the “common” language as it appears in the daily media, you will find a very clear break in that language shortly after the WTC/Pentagon attacks with a number of prominent people who had been reliably “Fundamentlist” repudiating that identity in the years 2002 and 2003. It would be quite difficult to find even the most conservative members of Right Wing Christianity labelled Fundamentalist, today, while even the worst Trump fans are called Evangelicals in the media.
I don’t like people who are so very very sure that no Higher Being exists. Mind you yes, I would vote for him if his positions were better than his opponent, but if one was a Moderate Christian, or Jew or… and the other a avowed atheist, I would pick the moderate. I also would not vote for an evangelical. I do not care for extremists.
I prefer people with a moderate, open viewpoint on faith,
That’s not what atheism means. It just means they lack belief in God or gods.
That’s — what he said, isn’t it? [Checks] Yeah, he said it “means they lack belief in God or gods.” And then you said ‘no’ right before saying it’s — an absence of belief in the existence of deities.
Why preface that with a ‘no’ instead of a ‘yes’?
If being sure that no higher being exists is an extremist view, then surely all religious people believing one does exist is also extremist?
Not going to be many options to vote for there…
I don’t like you either.
Atheism is not an “extremist” viewpoint.
Oh, I see. So we’re acceptable as long as we don’t talk about our beliefs.
Do you hold others to the same standards, or just atheists?
And no there is nothing inherently extremist about a lack of belief in God. There are some really prejudiced things about atheists being said in this thread. Apparently we can recognize the diverse range of people who identify as Christians but not atheists.
Agnosticism is the belief that there’s no way to know one way or another. It’s a little more strident than, “I don’t know.” It’s “I don’t know and neither do you because there’s no way to know.”
Absolute nonsense. I’ve been debating religion my whole life and for decades on these boards and elsewhere and this just is not true. It is a myth perpetuated by non-atheists. Non-atheists love to fantasize this is what most atheists (and loud atheists) profess, because it allows them to attack a strawman (as you have done in your post).
But actually, the overwhelming majority of atheists are of the first two types. Have you actually participated in debates on theism on these boards before? Because if you have (and given how long you have been here I find it hard to believe you haven’t) to not know this verges on highly willful blindness.
Bigots gonna bigot.
Would you care to explain the difference between “a lack of belief” and “the absence of belief”? Because they sound like the same thing to me.
How about if instead of shouting it that’s just the honest answer they give if they’re asked?
That’s because so many religious people will throw a fit if we say that we’re atheists; and depending on the context we might not feel it to be worth being harassed right then.
And why do you prefer politicians who are evasive to politicians who are honest?
The original premise is a crock of shit. It’s based on a total misunderstanding (historical and otherwise) of the Democrats (and to a lesser extent liberalism), and a parochial view of religion and politics.
There is probably a grain of truth in the idea that classic liberalism tends to be disjunct from religion, but there are liberal churches that have extensive overlap with “woke” style thought. The Dems are (if you will excuse the phraseology) a broad church. Its labor base has long been associated with churches. Catholics used to vote up to 80-90% Dem and even now about 50% Dem.
In many parts of the world (particularly poor countries and those with fascist governments) progressive religion is closely associated with left wing politics.
The OP has confused the current and relatively recent:
to come up with an utterly wrong view that Democrats and liberals are universally non-religious. It’s complete horseshit from the get go.
Exactly. We’re in a shit position. People assume atheist means anti-theist so you can’t even describe yourself in one word without people taking it as a personal attack. I publicly referred to myself as a “liberal atheist” the other day and I was sweating bullets. All I was doing was musing about how I found such a weird friend niche (Christian libertarian neurodiverse writers.) No immediate fallout but I’m hardly out of the clear. Lots of gossip in my family. No idea when it could come back to bite me in the ass. I kind of regret coming out because it’s probably going to damage some relationships. My worst case scenario is my husband being disinherited for being married to me.
Meanwhile I’ve got friends posting Bible verses on the daily and nobody thinks twice.
I’m a member of an ex-Christian message board and it’s hair-curdling what these kids have to go through just for being honest with their family about their lack of belief. And I’m there not because I’m an extremist, but because I went through it two decades ago and I want to be a support.
And people who insist they are agnostic while their actual beliefs are clearly atheist is another symptom of the same thing.
It’s either amusing or irritating or sad (or all three) when you come across someone who would rather die than admit to atheism, and who gets angry when you point out they are atheist, but who is happy to describe their beliefs in terms that make it quite clear they are atheist.
Moderating:
This can be interpreted as an attack on the poster, not the post. Please refrain from making flippant comments and stick to discussing the issues.
Not a formal warning.
That last exchange got very strange, since by the time I saw it, the post that many were responding to was deleted.
It is remarkable to me that people conflate religious and political tendencies. There are acres of liberal and conservative people of all religious stripes. A quick read of the newspapers, a glance at the world around us shows this to be true.
But of course hating people based on their religious beliefs is fashionable again. Very often in the past this particular form of bigotry has turned out very badly indeed.
But of course this time is different. This time, hatred of the religious is based on hard facts and sure science.
P J O’Rourke pointed out that “This time is different” is the never-ending cry of the con man.