Why Don't Some Christians Accept That "Personal Experience of God" Differs?

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Why Don’t Some Christians Accept That “Personal Experience of God” Differs?

Siege, has this become the classic “paralysis by analysis” situation. Too many opinions telling you what Christians need to believe. Is it like looking at the monitor too long, all the text garbles and becomes unreadable, undefined and confusing.

Your original question concerns why Christians can’t accept Christians if it differ in belief from their literal reading of a few selected scriptures in the New Testament. The short answer is they simply missed Christs call to become “Christ like”.

I’ve seen a few the few come forward expressing an inflexible dogma, based on a few selected scriptures, then try to defend (sometimes)their position with more inflexible dogma, when challenged by an already “dogma inflamed” group of intelligent, focused, readers. They were quickly labeled “Fundamentalist”, challenged, and to say the least, they flew south with their tail feathers on fire. All because they brought “Sunday School” dogma to the board. They recite the words they were taught years ago, but they lack an understanding of Christ.

As a Christian you are free to accept diversity in your belief. Does this mean you are not Christian. Not so, I refer you toPolycarp’s Principle, defined in an earlier post,(thread) as*“You are what you say you are”*. (I should have clipped that, I think it is close though) That’s probably as clear a definition as you will find. Whether you follow Christ is not decided by Sunday School logic, which has been previously suggested.

The art of proselytizing never included a requirement to force feed Christianity to anyone with differing beliefs, and certainly, never allows for argument. This is what I’ve seen though. This is what you see as not accepting a personal experience of God. Your interpretation of God, based on your experiences, as applied to YOU, is more important that anything contained in Sunday School Logic. (SSL?)

Christian missionary work is better done “by example” and by the “let your light be seen” (not heard) method of proselytizing. Then the work is never challenged, never argued against, and it conforms to the teachings of Christ A few good parables helps too.

As Christians, we need to view ourselves as others see us. We need to be tolerant towards the beliefs of others that differ. Other religions are tolerant of our beliefs and respect our right to differ. Advocating, arguing, SSL’ing Christian dogma to those who hear a different drummer is no different than trying to prove 1+1=2 with poetry.

The Jewish teachings are good examples of tolerance. Jewish teachings state that every man is responsible for his own salvation, no one else’s. (I’m close in that statement, sorry if it’s not verbatim ) It is my understanding that the Jewish prayer book provides -the righteous of all nations are worthy of immortality. This is tolerance, it shines with respect for others, it provides for, and recognizes that there is good in all people, and it works for me, even as a Christian, I believe it.

Within the envelope of Christianity is sufficient maneuvering room to comfortably fit your experiences to the doctrines. The By the Book, Black/White imaginary fundamentalist Christian doesn’t really exist, neither does his realm. Therefore, if you feel they are excluding you from the realm of Christianity because you don’t proscribe to their inflexible interpretations, I say meadow muffins, horse apples and cow chips, (and I’m not even a from the country.)
Without oversimplification of Christian principles to the level of “Believes Jesus Lived”,
I have not found one Christian principle, from the top 20 or so principles, that is defined and taught, in an identical fashion, among the 10 + major Christian sects. That calls for rephrasing, the top 10 Christian sects differ among themselves on principles of Christianity, and application of the principles. An example is “Faith in Jesus Christ”. The “Fundamentalist” view probably along the lines of “Absolute, no doubt, in stone, etc”. Reality check though provides; The Eastern Orthodox Church follows that “All non believers in Christ will be condemned” Severe enough to earn a “fundie” flag for the faith issue. However the Presbyterians feel that they ‘do not know, and that God will determine this matter’. The Unitarians feel that since there is no Hell, there is no condemnation, therefore, what is there to be “saved” from.
It is true that the majority of Christian religions follow more closely the Orthodox view. but even so, there no definition or application common to all. There is a lot of gray in there.
If I search among the top Christian Religions, for their philosophy with respect to belief in 1. Baptism, 2. God, 3. Jesus Christ, 4. Holy Ghost, 5 .Trinity, 6 .Adam and Eve, 7 .Church membership as requirement for salvation, 9 .Life after Death, 10. Satan, 11. Resurrection, 12. Second coming of Christ, or even the 13. Purpose of Life, I’m going to find diversity among the Christian churches , and within the members of those Churches. I like the latitude provided by gray.
Until Christ returns and tells me otherwise, I’ll follow the dictates of my conscious. Isn’t that what you are doing when you say “personal experiences”.

So Siege, IMHO Why Don’t Some Christians Accept That “Personal Experience of God” Differs? They are myopic. They can’t see the forest for the trees, so they see the answer as; cut the trees until the forest becomes visible.
I’m going to go soak my tail feathers in water now, and see if I can find a few ducks to line up just in case. Have a good day.

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Siege, I would wonder what your view of hell is like, as most people who don’t worry if other believe in different gods, IMO, don’ t really understand hell. I’ll post an actual letter from an atheist, which I posted before. So do I think you are or are not a Christian? I have no idea. My experience isn’t the plum line to show what you should or should not do, the Bible is.

Here’s the letter to Ray Comfort:

You are really convinced that you’ve got all the answers. You’ve really got yourself tricked into believing that you’re 100% right. Well, let me tell you just one thing. Do you consider yourself to be compassionate of other humans? If you’re right, as you say you are, and you believe that, then how can you sleep at night? When you speak with me, you are speaking with someone who you believe is walking directly into eternal damnation, into an endless onslaught of horrendous pain which your ‘loving’ god created, yet you stand by and do nothing.

If you believed one bit that thousands every day were falling into an eternal and unchangeable fate, you should be running the streets mad with rage at their blindness. That’s equivalent to standing on a street corner and watching every person that passes you walk blindly directly into the path of a bus and die, yet you stand idly by and do nothing. You’re just twiddling your thumbs, happy in the knowledge that one day that ‘walk’ signal will shine your way across the road.

Think about it. Imagine the horrors Hell must have in store if the Bible is true. You’re just going to allow that to happen and not care about saving anyone but yourself? If you’re right then you’re an uncaring, unemotional and purely selfish (expletive) that has no right to talk about subjects such as love and caring."

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CJ, how intriguing it is to see this thread right after I had one of these experiences.

Thursday, I attended the funeral of my Sweety’s ex-wife.

After the service, her sister invited us all to her home for a meal. While there, Sweety’s brother-in-law struck up a conversation with me. The gentleman is an evangelical Baptist. Now, I find nothing at all wrong with that. I believe that whatever way you connect with God is the right way for you.

When he found out I was a cradle Episcopalian, he got kinda nervous. He eased up really close to me … practically in my face … demanding to know if I had “accepted Christ” as my “personal Lord and Savior”. It was … um… , uncomfortable to say the least. Fortunately, after 43 years of explaining it, I am able to talk about my relationship with God in a way that some Christians can at least understand, even if they don’t accept it.

IMO the folks who act this way are actually fearful for your soul. As has been pointed out earlier, they can’t get their head around the idea that there are many ways to the Father.

Fact of business is, there are many things which we, stuck in simple human bodies, cannot percieve and understand about the mysteries of spirituality. There is a vast untold universe of love and soul which we can but dimly see. Who am I to tell you that my understanding of this is more accurate than yours? That would be arrogance in its purest form.

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This is great if we believe the same. But can I say you are myopic and narrow-minded, as well as intolerant if you don’t believe the same as me, or is it just for people who don’t believe the same as you? And “As Christians, we need to view ourselves as others see us” what is the logic behind this? I’ve also seen some ‘Christians who are such friends with the world they miss God’, as well as some who really do try and serve two masters. So is it wrong to want to be a Christian, yet flirt with the world? I guess no different than if my wife wanted to go flirt with other guys while we’re married. But I do agree with some things said here. We never have to beat someone into submission. Not only that, but there was a mention of gossip and drunkards, and yes, they are equally bad. To say we accept one (which is true) and don’t accept the other doesn’t mean we should accept all, it means we should see what is said about them all. But we tend to rate sin on a good vs. bad scale or an acceptable sin vs. an unacceptable one.

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You know what? I believe in the truth of what Jesus Christ taught, and what John the Beloved Disciple had to say about it – and it appears to me that God is a loving father, long-suffering, unwilling that any should perish, who so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son that whoso believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life, who sent his son into the world not to condemn the world but that the world through him might be redeemed.

So call your scary ogre of a pseudogod who’s out to condemne everyone to Hell something else than the God and Father of Christ, because He made plentifully clear that He is not that bogeyman. Oh, and that Bible you’re so quick to claim you believe in? It might help if you read the parts of it that talk about Christ’s ministry and teachings.

Oh, and Beryl? I have no claim to speak for the Orthodox – Dogface if anybody here can alone make that claim – but my longtime friend and erstwhile co-moderator on a Christian board WorkingOnIt is Antiochan Orthodox, and he considers the following quote important enough in Orthodox teaching that he chose it as his .sig:

If I didn’t believe the Episcopalian understanding of Christianity is the one closest to the truth, I’d be something else instead. But I don’t put limits on it – I already know that God speaks to me in the strangest of ways: four distinct Pagans, a five-year-old boy, a DJ who didn’t have a clue he was delivering a detailed message to me… :slight_smile: So I don’t try to put Him in a box – a procedure I recommend to everybody! :slight_smile:

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Svt4Him

They are not myopic for having a belief that differs, instead theyare myopic in their proclamation that their belief, and only their belief is valid. I accept that they have the right to believe as they choose. They are not myopic for their view as much as they are for failing to allow others to have different views that they readily condemn without any attempt to identify or understand the same. They are not myopic for finding their religion, and professing a strong faith in it, but for not allowing others the same right.
Here is an example of myopic missionary work
Once another person became angry when I refused to accept that heaven was limited to 144,000 soles. He further stated that unless you were in that 144,000 you were doomed, dead forever, etc. “Can’t God make a bigger heaven? I asked” His disposition became angry, he thumped his finger on the open page of his Bible telling me “read it, it’s right here.” That was the end of that discussion. (I still believe God could make a bigger heaven ) If that was my one and only exposure to Christianity, I would have an entirely different opinion.

Svt4him I’m sorry I don’t really understand the remainder of your question. It appears that you are posing a question regarding good vs. evil. In fact, by merely asking such a question you have already answered it. Other than those things which are so obviously evil, the smaller good vs evil conflicts are resolved by listening to our conscious. (imho)

**Polycarp, Dogface, the World, the Eastern Orthodox Church… Anyone…**If I say anything that offends anyone, their religious beliefs, their race, their creed, their orientation, whatever, I do so out of Ignorance, not intent. So please give me a chance to expose my ignorance prior to assuming I intended to offend.

I reread my post and it is possible that what I said could be insulting or offensive to members of the Eastern Orthodox Church. I did not intend to make any offensive statement. If you find my comment offensive, I offer my sincere apology, and promise that I will be more considerate in the future. If I could un-ring the bell I would do so.

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I certainly was not offended, Beryl – it’s just that I gathered you understood their claim to alone have preservded the fullness of the apostolic tradition as implying exclusivism, and my distinct impression is that their stance is far from that. My post was not to register offense, on my own part or that of the Orthodox, but more in the line of combatting ignorance. In any case, Dogface’s name having been invoked, he may be along to set us both straight! :slight_smile:

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I don’t believe anyone is walking into eternal damnation. The God I know does not torture and burn people, enjoying their screams.
He is unconditional love, compassionate, and wants His followers to follow His example. I am very sorry you are horrified of your God, perhaps you would like to change over to mine.

OK, we both know there is only one God, is He good (mine) or is He bad (yours)? I vote for mine. I have actually been in the presence of my God, and talked to Him and got answers. I bet you read yours out of a book.

Love
Leroy

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Polycarp:

It’s amazing to me how “inerrantists” can carefully ignore the heart and core of Scripture: the teachings of Jesus, in favor of what supports their particular cultural mindset.

No more amazing than how “errantists” like you, continue to ignore a good deal of core scripture and the teachings of Jesus in favor of your personal mindset.

*If you are an inerrantist (or even a non-inerrantist believer in Jesus’s Divinity), you are saying:

“Jesus was a liar when he said that the bread he blessed and broke was his body” because our church doesn’t believe in the real presence.*

Just like you Polycarp say that:

“Jesus was a liar when he said he would cast unbelievers into hell for everlasting punishment.”

“Jesus was a liar when he endorsed the old testament law and explicitly states that it should both followed and taught, which unto all outwards appearances condemns homosexuality and shellfish.”

“Jesus was a liar when he said the only for adultery is ok to get a divorce and that it is sin to marry a divorced woman.”

Have fun with your leatherbound god, and when the real God judges you as you chose to judge others, don’t say I didn’t warn you.

I think said fundamentalist, which you are constantly criticizing, would say that they are not judging but only giving warning as you do, and might suggest that you heed that warning before god judges you for teaching against his explicit word in favor of your made up doctrine, which you align with your own selfish interests.

I believe in the truth of what Jesus Christ taught, and what John the Beloved Disciple had to say about it – and it appears to me that God is a loving father, long-suffering, unwilling that any should perish, who so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son that whoso believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life, who sent his son into the world not to condemn the world but that the world through him might be redeemed.

And yet for simple disbelief your above mentioned source indicates your “loving father” who is “unwilling that any should parish” would rather not give life but his wrath:

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

So call your scary ogre of a pseudogod who’s out to condemne everyone to Hell something else than the God and Father of Christ, because He made plentifully clear that He is not that bogeyman.

“Plentyfully clear” indeed:

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 12:5
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which AFTER he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Matthew 13:41-42,
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 7:13-14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Oh, and that Bible you’re so quick to claim you believe in? It might help if you read the parts of it that talk about Christ’s ministry and teachings.

Seems you might be wise to read through the book again yourself.

I already know that God speaks to me in the strangest of ways: four distinct Pagans, a five-year-old boy, a DJ who didn’t have a clue he was delivering a detailed message to me…

While I personally doubt any divine influence, there is a outside chance that you should add at least one atheist to your list.:wink:

Please don’t go crying fowl about my sarcastic tone, as I think I have made it clear in this post, it is only a reflection of what you cast on my beloved fundies.:wink: Oh and in case you’re wondering. This idea you have of ignoring my criticisms in hopes that they’ll stop. It’s not working.

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Regarding the Bible, since the time of its ratification it has been regarded by the church that ratified it—the Roman Catholic Church—as a document that should be interpreted in conjunction with the accumulated tradition of the Church. It’d be one thing if the document were handed down from God as something followed to the letter; but in fact the notion of following it to the letter didn’t develop until more than a millennium, by a group (several groups) that left the church because they didn’t like its interpretation. (With good reason, of course—the RCC did some horrible things back then—but then the church was reformed from within, and it’s better now.)

And the Bible isn’t really a valid document for supporting an argument in any case. You can support almost anything from the Bible if that’s what you want to do. Which, of course, is why it’s useful to have accumulated tradition and wisdom to pull from.

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Svt4Him, I do believe in hell. As someone who suffers from nasty clinical depression at times, I suspect I’ve even had a taste of it. My personal definition of hell, based on that good old Episcopal three-legged stool of Scripture, reason, and tradition, is that it’s separation from God. My experience leads me to see it as a place of self-imposed pain, suffering, and agony, and it’s not something I wish to experience. By the way, at the time of my worst experience, I was very much a Christian and a Sunday School teacher myself.

The thing is, knowing who I do in real life and associating with the people I do, I see people who have come to the conclusion that they are not welcome to be Christians because they do not accept what they are told all Christians must accept or because they are told that something which they consider a basic, fixed part of themselves, be it homosexuality or general contrariness, is not compatible with being a Christian. I’m acutely aware that there are some people who consider me to damn wierd to be a Christian.

You speak of people falling into a pit. I see people being chased into a pit by the people who say they’re trying to save them. Popularity is the last thing on this earth I’m interested in. At one point in my life, I developed a very negative knee-jerk reaction to any trace or trapping of popularity because doing what I believed was Right was far more important than whether or not so-and-so liked me. While I’m less extreme than I was, that knee-jerk reaction remains. Popular? I told a man I once loved as dearly as a person can love another human being that if I had to choose between him and God, only one choice would be possible and it wouldn’t be my love. I have argued with my priest. I have also spoken up and, I suppose, risked physical harm when others have remained silent, and I will do so again. I’ve frequently been accused of putting popularity before God when I state views which differ from other Christians. That accusation is so unlikely, it borders on surreal, although it’s also starting to get annoying.

reepicheep (love your user name, by the way), sorry if I came across as a bit rough. I think you and I have far more in common than it may have seemed at first, and I, too like that passage in Romans you cited. Ultimately, I do agree with Romans 14:12, “So, you see, each of us will have to answer for himself.” I am prepared to accept the consequences of my actions in this world, even if those consequences are my version of hell, Svt4Him’s version of hell, or anyone else’s. I hope that when I stand before the Creator, I will be able to say in good conscience, “I did the best I could” and he will accept that small offering. No sacrifice, not even entering a convent and dedicating my life to Him in the world’s eyes can match what He has done for me.

Beryl_Mooncalf, thanks for your concern, but, while some would say this is a dangerous thing to say, given God’s sense of humor, I can assure you that my faith is as absolute and unmoving as the hills that surround me, maybe even a bit moreso. We’ve had the odd landslide this summer. What prompted this was, in part, a conservative Christian e-mailing me and telling me that I was leading other people to Hell by stating my beliefs. Obviously, I don’t believe that I am. I can see where you’re coming from with your story about the preacher and the 144,000 souls. Why some people feel the need to place limits on God still confuses me, although I’ve tried to understand their position. That God has limits is about as fundamental a contradiction in terms as you can get. I have made my choices, and, while they may change, given how firmly and ardently I hold to them, I wouldn’t bet the rent on it. I can be very stubborn at times. Even if I do have a radical transformation of faith, I’m still prepared to accept the consequences of my actions so far. Besides, given my particular leanings, a radical transformation of faith is more likely to wind up with me becoming Wiccan than conservative Christian.

Thanks for your responses. Frankly, I don’t really expect to convince all conservative Christians that my views are valid, but I do get tired of hearing “You’re wrong” or “You’re just trying to be popular.” No, I’m just trying “to love and serve you [Him] with gladness and singleness of heart” as I’ll be praying in a few hours. With His help, I might even pull it off!

CJ

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Personal experience of everything differs. Due to the nature of the chronosynclasticinfundibulum, no two people have ever experienced the exact same thing the exact same way at the exact same time and place.

Attempting to use differing perceptions as evidence against the existence of God is like using differing perceptions of temperature as evidence against the existence of heat. It’s 68 degrees farenheit: he says it’s comfortable; she says it’s chilly — but the temperature is what it is.

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Reepicheep, if in any way I’ve offended you personally by what I’ve had to say here, I apologize. It was not in fact clear that you were responding to the OP by describing a mindset which you do not in fact share (and, BTW, I had you confused with another poster who also uses a Narnian nick on this board, and who does, so far as I can tell, share that mindset, adding to the confusion!).

Badchad, valid points that deserve addressing. If you ever feel like doing me the courtesy of presuming that I hold my views sincerely, and arguing against them in a perspective that gives some respect to that presumption, I’ll be glad to give the best defense I can for my views. I attempted that once, and what I got back from you were comments with the same tone as the apocryphal “Have you quit beating your wife yet?” I’ve discussed this with a man I respect greatly, and our mutual understanding is that you get what you give.

Svt, I failed to give you that same respect, and I do apologize. But I do have this to say in that regard: While you and I may agree that God is, as that cento of Scripture quotes from my previous post states, long-suffering and full of mercy, your posts do appear to paint you yourself as anxious to help save sinners from His wrath – in short, that you are the merciful messenger of a merciless god, warning people of the danger they face from Him. On the presumption that I do understand you correctly, you can see how mistaken a picture your posts paint of Him, and that’s what I’m angry about.

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Oh, I am anxious to help save any sinner from God’s wrath. But let me tell you two verses that I think of. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, and “Watch yourself that you make no covenant with the inhabitants of the land into which you are going, lest it becomes a snare in your midst.” As for who should be evangelists, I think you either are one, support one, or are being disobedient. “Do the work of an evangelist.” “Follow me and I will make you fishers of men.” Jesus came “to seek and save that which was lost” notice it doesn’t say those who are lost, but that which was lost. What was lost and when? Man’s fellowship with God through sin, IMO. Do I think God is full of wrath? Towards sin, yes. Do I think it’ll happen tomorrow? I have no idea, but neither do you. God is slow to anger, but He does get angry. How much more does the world have to reject Him before it’s displayed? I don’t know. In the late 1980s, TV commercials in the U.S. asked, “What goes through the mind of a driver who is not wearing a seat belt in a headon collision?” Then they showed a crash dummy having its head crushed by a steering wheel in a collision, and said, “The steering wheel!” Those were scare tactics, but no one complained because they were legitimate scare tactics. That’s what happens in a head-on collision if you are foolish enough to not put on a seat belt. To warn of hell is fearful, but it is absolutely legitimate, because the Bible says that it is a fearful thing for a sinner to fall into the hands of the living God.

Now maybe you feel I think I’m the only one who can save them, and that couldn’t be further from the truth. That is why I like books like Left Behind, that, although I think they don’t totally line up with how I see the end times, I think it’s a great way to get people thinking about it, and there’s enough Scripture in it to make a difference, and that is great.

Here is the greatest evangelism message I’ve ever heard, called Hell’s best kept secret free to listen to online. I gave it to all the church leaders, and have many copies (it’s allowed) that I have given out. Best message I’ve heard about Biblical evangelism.

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Sorry, Svt, but there is not a jot of difference between your version of Christianity and that of a fundamentalist mullah who is convinced God will punish non-Muslims. You are selling Fear; specifically, you are selling people the idea that they must swear fealty to the Divine Tyrant or be subjected to eternal torture. Now this may just be my own idiosyncrasy, but I don’t respond well to threats from bullies, no matter how supernatural they might be. If your God exists, He is, IMO, a vicious dictator, far worse than the likes of Saddam Hussein or Pol Pot because the tortures imposed by mortal tyrants have a finite duration, but the excruciating pain meted out by Yahweh lasts forever. Now you might be willing to kowtow to His capricious demands for fear of what He might do to you, but I won’t. If all you offer is fear, I’m not interested.

You people always dwell on hellfire and damnation, and you make God sound no different than Satan, a bloodthirsty spirit who enjoys torturing those creatures who displease Him. Why do you never speak instead of a God who loves His creatures so much that He wishes them to be happy, that He wishes them to know eternal joy? Why do you never speak of the renewal God can bring into people’s lives right here, right now?

One thing I know about fundies who preach hellfire sermons is that they do not understand the New Testament. The key to understanding Jesus’s mission is John 3:16-20:

[quote]

16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19: And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21: But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

[quote]

The message of Christianity is that mankind is fallen, estranged form God by its own sinful, flawed nature. Only through submission to God’s mercy as minstered by Jesus’s Atonement and Resurrection can humans be transformed from weak, rebellious creatures to shining children of God. God wishes all people to be saved. If humans reject God’s charity and go their own ways, they will never reach that joy and bliss of the Kingodm of God but wander in darkness, eternally separated form His Divine Love, blocked from Him by their own appetites and wilfullness.

What you people need to preach is NOT hellfire and fear, but transformation, renewal, forgiveness, reunion with God by turning away from the prison of desire and embracing His unselfish love.

That you do not do this shows that you not understand the Gospels.

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Sorry, Svt, but there is not a jot of difference between your version of Christianity and that of a fundamentalist mullah who is convinced God will punish non-Muslims. You are selling Fear; specifically, you are selling people the idea that they must swear fealty to the Divine Tyrant or be subjected to eternal torture. Now this may just be my own idiosyncrasy, but I don’t respond well to threats from bullies, no matter how supernatural they might be. If your God exists, He is, IMO, a vicious dictator, far worse than the likes of Saddam Hussein or Pol Pot because the tortures imposed by mortal tyrants have a finite duration, but the excruciating pain meted out by Yahweh lasts forever. Now you might be willing to kowtow to His capricious demands for fear of what He might do to you, but I won’t. If all you offer is fear, I’m not interested.

You people always dwell on hellfire and damnation, and you make God sound no different than Satan, a bloodthirsty spirit who enjoys torturing those creatures who displease Him. Why do you never speak instead of a God who loves His creatures so much that He wishes them to be happy, that He wishes them to know eternal joy? Why do you never speak of the renewal God can bring into people’s lives right here, right now?

One thing I know about fundies who preach hellfire sermons is that they do not understand the New Testament. The key to understanding Jesus’s mission is John 3:16-20:

The message of Christianity is that mankind is fallen, estranged form God by its own sinful, flawed nature. Only through submission to God’s mercy as minstered by Jesus’s Atonement and Resurrection can humans be transformed from weak, rebellious creatures to shining children of God. God wishes all people to be saved, not damned. If humans reject God’s charity and go their own ways, they will never reach that joy and bliss of the Kingdom of God but wander in darkness, eternally separated form His Divine Love, blocked from Him by their own appetites and wilfullness.

What you people need to preach is NOT hellfire and fear, but transformation, renewal, forgiveness, reunion with God by turning away from the prison of desire and embracing His unselfish love.

That you do not do this shows that you not understand the Gospels.

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Wow!

Matthew 8:10

38

Ditto.

Svt4Him, I spent my youth standing up to bullies who told me I must become like them or else and defending others who were told the same. I have never joined any organization or accepted someone’s words out of fear and condemnation, only out of love and acceptance. My knees have shaken with awe and I have trembled in the presence of God, yet I recall each time He spoke to one of His servants through His angels, the first thing the angel said was, “Be not afraid.” I do not believe He wishes me to fear Him, only to serve Him and I will without hesitation claim gobear as my brother as readily as I do Polycarp, if gobear will permit me that honor.

Respectfully,
CJ

39

Ya know, we clearly don’t share the same definitions of “greatest,” “evangelism,” and “message.”

40

It’s really pretty simple. Many if not most people who cling to fundementalist religious beliefs don’t give a damn about religion. It’s a prop, just like anti-semitism for a Nazi, or racism for a Klanner. They have a pathetic, mindless need for personal dominance, and the fulfill this need by convincing themselves that those who believe like they do are a special elite, and that they are the core of this elite. They hold absolutist, anti-societal views because it allows them to build an illusion that they are a messianic figure within a vast conflict that most people are too stupid to even recognize.

When people aren’t cowering behind religion with the garbage, it’s just garden variety psychosis. Stop giving the halfwits the attention they don’t deserve and they’ll just burn out in frustration. Or blow themselves up. Either way you’re rid of them.