You may be right, but I wonder if interpretating the phrase in this manner is more a result of modern sensibilites and not really the original intent. I’m no biblical scholar, so I have to wonder what conclusion folks who study the earliest versions of these texts feel it means. That probably means more than what you or I or some random folks on the web think.
If I feel like it, I maybe I’ll start a new thread abut it in GD.
I found other verses that seem to support my original interpretation of the verse in question.
Since I’d rather have a reasonable debate on the subject, I made a GD thread:
How to interpret “…no one comes to the Father, but through me” (John 14:6)
I invite those with an opinion on the matter to post their ideas there.
Do you even know what that word means? It means “be overly critical; criticize minor details”. It does not mean “rape kittens, the Teletubbies, or small furry woodland creatures”.
I don’t recall my bible saying a damned thing about criticizing minor details being grounds for eternal torment (and no, the “mote in the eye” doesn’t apply here; read for comprehension). I guess that means pretty much any scientist or engineer goes to hell in “your book”. :rolleyes:
When McDonalds has an unlimited supply of colourful and amusing placemats, why would a person not interested in the minutae and the minor details of life bother even reading a Board like “The Straight Dope”? 
How do you reconcile the two bolded statements?
I roughly agree, but the fact is that there’s so much contradiction in the bible and gospels, and so much room for interpretation when there’s no direct contradiction that actually both “sides” do the same picking of choosing. And believe in what they find appealing and discard the rest, or believe in what they’ve been taught to believe and discard the rest. Or a mix.
However, on the overall, I too find fundamentalists more coherent. They aknowledge that the christian god isn’t just a god of love, for instance. He’s definitely also a god of wrath and judgement. I find also difficult to construct homosexuality as not being condemned by the bible, to give another example.
But of course, their stance is a long shot from being totally coherent, either. Homosexuality is an issue, eating oysters isn’t. Paul is to be listened to when he says A but not when he says B.
That said, I vastly prefer the less coherent stance of non-fundamentalists. I can’t help being extremely warry of people who find justifications for various awful crimes depicted in the bible or who have no issue worshipping a god who will have essentialy everybody apart them tortured forever. I’m not sure exactly what it tells about them, but most certainly something I really wouldn’t like.
It doesn’t appear a case of “good Christian v bad Christian” to me, in this thread or any of the others I’ve read. More a case of “those who bash people about the head and shoulders and spew hateful vitriol ostensibly based on the bible v those who try and share the good news of the gospel.”
Being a jerk is being a jerk, regardless of source material.
Just a thought…
What if it’s not the destination, but the trip? What if heaven is actually the act of treating people in a kind fashion and in turn being treated kindly? You know, being a good person for the sake of being a good person? Could it be that heaven is a state of mind that has nothing to do with superstition, hocus-pocus, an afterlife, or witchcraft?
[/QOUTE]
Compromise and the masses love you (youre compassionate),
tell the truth and you are a ignorant bigot(unfair!)
[/QUOTE]
Actually the work I was thinking of was 'hypocrit". I’ve had my abortion. Too bad for you.
IMHO, there is no heaven; you die and rot in the ground.
But if there is a heaven, your ideas seems as logical as any, and more logical than most.
I’m only in this thread to point out that vanilla was being bashed for simply believing a common (if not most common) interpretation of Christ’s words, which I found strange and unfair.
Revtim I understand that vanilla’s interpretation of the bible is fairly common and even sympathize with her for being bashed for her beliefs. ( I try to respect everyone’s beliefs even if I totally disagree with them.) I just think that most of the people bashing her were doing so for the way she handled herself and projecting her beliefs on other people. The whole I am right you are wrong if you disagree attitude just flies all over a lot of people. Rightfully so IMHO.
As a chemist who has studied evolutionary biology and works in the geology field, I know that plenty of evidence is out there that contradicts a literal interpretation of the bible. Vanilla may never have been exposed to that material. Her fault? Maybe or maybe not. I can’t say. I don’t know her but it seems to me that her flat out refusal to accept any other interpretation never mind any other religion is what gets her in trouble here.
Me either. I’m merely suggesting that people take christianity and the bible way too literally. Maybe we’re speaking in metaphors and imagery here and a whole bunch of people aren’t getting it.
For me? Dead is dead. Done-ski.
Well, during my enforced break from the SDMB, this thread burgeoned, and 95% of what I would have wanted to say was said, and far more eloquently, by Aries28 and Siege among others.
But this one comment requires a bit more comment than what Revtim and Kalhoun gave it.
Context, as has often been said, is everything.
This is, undeniably, a valid Scripture passage. It’s taken from Psalm 14:2b, and is something quoted to me by a skeptical friend a while ago. In context, of course, it’s what “the fool sayeth in his heart.”
So what’s the context of “No one comes to the Father except by me”? And, please note, Revtim to the contrary, there is not one word about “worship” in that passage.
Well, it’s part of the Maundy Thursday discourse in John. Jesus and the Twelve have just had dinner, with the sharing of the bread and the cup that led to the Eucharist, and Jesus is expecting to get arrested that night, or is at least aware that He’s put matters in motion that will lead to the climax of His ministry – we cannot be sure exactly how much He knew ahead of time, thanks to the kenosis that left Him only partially aware of His fate.
But here’s the context:
In short, the whole thing is about Jesus having compassion on his followers, whom John (like the other Evangelists) depicts as something like dolts. He knows what’s down the pike for Him, and for them as well – and He is dealing with their misunderstandings of it.
Peter is claiming that he will follow Jesus anywhere – and Jesus says, “Nope. Before dawn tomorrow you’ll deny me three times. But don’t sweat it – I have got everything under control.”
If Jesus is going away, as He’s said, Thomas wants to know the way He’s going. I hear this as Thomas thinking Jesus is talking metaphor again – “the Way” as some mystical, Zen concept that Jesus is trying to get across to His followers.
And Jesus says, in essence, “Chill out, Thomas. It’s cool – the Father loves you, and so do I. You don’t have to learn some mystical Way – I am the way to the Father. You know Me – so you know Him too. Follow Me – I am the Way that you need to know. I’m the truth you need to learn; I’m the life you need to live.”
To convert this into an exclusivist “If you don’t believe in the Nicene Creed, you’re damned” or “Give your life to Jesus” bit of theology is completely contrary to the context – the statement is part and parcel of the idea that Jesus’s Atonement brings man and God together, out of love by God for man. He understands us and has compassion on us. He is the way – not some satori insight but the person whom He is. Through His work man and God are reconciled.
Pull a verse out of context, and you can make it mean any damned thing you want it to mean – and the word “damned” is used advisably there. Jesus is trying to comfort Thomas with that statement. It’s His love that will make things all right – that will triumph over Caiphas and Herod and Pilate and death itself.
Obviously, this whole thing requires a response from us. But that’s the point behind the Holy Spirit being sent – and Jesus gets into this later in the same discourse. The Holy Spirit is supposed to guide people into the response that God wants from them individually – not a “one size fits all” altar call but the life that He expects, individually, of Polycarp and Siege and Aries28 Gobear and Kalhoun and Revtim and Vanilla and you who read this. And it is one founded in the love that He bears for each person individually, and not the holding of a particular theological tenet or a particular act of repentance or contrition or whatever. It is the living of the particular life that He calls each person to.
Welcome back Polycarp!
Thank you for your interpretation. However, it probably would have been more appropriate to put in the GD thread I had made on the subject:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4814245
(I mention this new thread in post #322 of this thread, but I see it would be very easy to miss)
Would you mind terribly copying your reply there? This subject deserves a better thread that the ass-end of Pit rant.
Polycarp so what you are saying is one doesn’t need to “get saved”, one just needs to live as Jesus did?
If so, why did He die then?
That’s not quite it, either, Otters. See the GD thread – I’ve tried to answer related questions on what I meant there. (What we have here is a case of sliding 20 cents over a smooth surface – a paradigm shift.)
That’s it! I’m going back to working on the pi shawl! 
For the 99% of Dopers who aren’t in on the joke, several months ago, I posted a to-do list:
[ol][li]Clean apartment.[/li][li]Finish pi shawl.[/li][li]Kill Polycarp![/ol][/li]I had put the pi shawl on a back burner so as not to hasten his impending doom, but me thinks it’s time to get it out of the work basket!
CJ
(For those of you who don’t know us, this is posted entirely in jest, and no actual death threat was intended.)
You know, I was going to welcome you back, until you made that pair of dimes crack.
Just be glad he didn’t say that two doctors make a paradox.
Crap! I was SO avoiding that other thread but now Poly’s back and I gotta read it.
shitshitshitshitshit
glad yer back