Why don't you idiots calm down?

[Siege]

First things first. One caveat: I am angry right now.

@vanilla

But you see, i changed my sig.
What it used to say was Jesus is the only way to Heaven, any other way is wrong.

No, wait, let me rethink that and put down the flame thrower out of respect for what I have thought of you. Remember, I know people who are not and will probably never become Christians because of the actions of other Christians. Remember that two of my dearest friends were Fundamenalist Christians then became Atheists and are now Wiccans. Also remember that some of the cruelest people I have known in my life were devout Christians. Instead of inserting the epithet of my choice in response to that, I will say this: if Christ’s atonement was not sufficient for all, then it is the height of arrogance for me to assume it was sufficient for me. This is something I strongly disagree with.

@vanilla

Thanks NoClueBoy.

I don’t want to debate.hat is my stance, that they are insulting all religious folk and screamoing about it, as If Kerry will save their world.

Having sex outside of marriage can result in pregnancy.
I fele it stupid, as the woman is usually left with a baby, no father, not a good thing.
I had an unwanted pregnancy when my son was 1.
I ended it for what many would consider good reasons(father said its not mine and took off and got married, no money, quit job, no babysitter even, on welfare)

However.
i leanred from my mistake and have not had sex since then (Aug. 1994).
Not worth it.
I will when I marry.
(of course, by then I will have had my tubes tied).

Anyway,
They came across stupid and shrill.
Like Bush is going to outlkaw abortion?
You really think he’dget away with that?

Hell, yes. You see, as someone who’s been pro-choice for a couple of decades now, I know that several states have very few doctors who provide abortions (Link – it’s pro-choice, of course). I know that the number of doctors who perform abortion is dropping. I know that the restrictions being imposed on women who want abortions is increasing. I know that the gag-rule forbids doctors from discussing abortion with women who go to federally funded clinics, even when it might be the least bad alternative. I remember the days of Randall Terry and Operation Rescue and am aware that there are some people out there who not only oppose abortion, they also oppose contraception. I know that corporate funding for research for new and more effective forms of birth control has dropped, and I’ve read it’s out of fear of the anti-abortion movement, although I freely admit my sources are biased. I’ve also known at least one woman who, when she was going to a clinic to be treated for infertility, was accused of being a baby-killer by anti-abortion people who were protesting outside. I hope that people being that cruel, intentionally or not, were not doing so in the name of Christ and Christianity, but I doubt it. :rolleyes:

I am a Christian. I believe abortion is always morally wrong, and I used to believe in not having sex outside of marriage until my engagement to a wonderful man ended. We’d sworn vows to each other which I think we both thought were binding. Apparently they weren’t. I don’t regret having sex with the man, nor will I. I still don’t believe in having sex without a commitment, and I certainly don’t believe in having sex with a man with whom I couldn’t have the dreaded “What if I get pregnant?” speech, but that is me, my taste, and the way my life has worked out. I’ve certainly been strongly tempted enough to reconsider that position. I will fight to keep abortion safe, legal, and rare. If I’d had time and money, I would have been at that march on Sunday, shouting as loudly as anyone there, and I do have the power and knowledge to do so (I used to be able to drown out a 30 person choir single-voicedly:eek:).

I would love to see a day when no one ever has another abortion. The problem is, for me, the only ethical way for that to come about for there to be a day when no one ever had an unwanted pregnancy. Until that time, I will remain firmly and adamantly pro-choice, even though it’s a choice I hope no one ever has to make.

CJ

[Lord_Ashtar]

@vanilla

Hilary, screaming sand being hoarse already yelling Vote for Kerry!
Yes, like that has everything to do with abortion.

Do you honestly expect a politician to make any sort of speech during an election year without shilling for the candidate for his/her party?

[Hamadryad]

@vanilla

Did I say I was opposed to abortion even?
Or that it should never happen?

Well, when you describe it this way:

They were showing the Rally To keep Aborting Babies.

…certain assumptions are usually made.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

Everybody here is getting so upset at the mere mention of politics or abortion.
Why don’t you idiots calm down?

[VarlosZ]

Siege, you’ve got a typo in your sig line.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

@Siege

I would love to see a day when no one ever has another abortion. The problem is, for me, the only ethical way for that to come about for there to be a day when no one ever had an unwanted pregnancy. Until that time, I will remain firmly and adamantly pro-choice, even though it’s a choice I hope no one ever has to make.

CJ

Siege, beautifully put. I thank you for, once again, showing us that a powerful Christian faith can be imbued with reason, intelligence, empathy, and compassion.

vanilla, listen to NoClueBoy, please. Ask a mod or admin to lock this thread before you’re flamed beyond recognition.

[look_ninjas]

@Siege

I would love to see a day when no one ever has another abortion. The problem is, for me, the only ethical way for that to come about for there to be a day when no one ever had an unwanted pregnancy. Until that time, I will remain firmly and adamantly pro-choice, even though it’s a choice I hope no one ever has to make.

You said it better than I could, Siege.

[Jonathan_Chance]

Actually, there are some things I agree with in the OP.

Never let yourself get hoarse when public speaking. Don’t scream. Speak clearly, project and let the PA system do the amplification. Shouting into a PA system just causes distortion and kills your message.

Ain’t technology grand?

[Jackmannii]

“Screaming sand”?

Is this some kind of reference to the Mideast?

[GingerOfTheNorth]

@Silver Serpentine

You know that women can accidentally get pregnant while married, right? Like the unplanned, earth-shattering type of thing?

Ya don’t say. Even in a committed relationship, ‘accidents’ can happen.

-Ginger, who is due November 6. Unplanned, but not unwanted

[jlzania]

As I get older, I become more and more opposed to abortion as a method of birth control.
I would prefer a world where every woman has access to affordable, safe birth control, where every baby would be guaranteed a loving caring home, and every pregnant woman is pregnant by choice.
But long as our culture places 99% of the burden of an unwanted pregnancy on the woman, I’ll staunchly defend every woman’s right to make her own choice.

On another note,vanilla, you seem to be adopting more of a fundamentalist hard-core stance in your recent posts.
First you went out of your way to rather disingeniously portray Jersey Diamond and another poster as just good decent Christians driven out by the anti-Christian forces of the SDMB and now this.
What gives?

[Marley23]

Having sex outside of marriage can result in pregnancy.

Sex can cause pregnancy in or outside of marriage. Other people already said it, but I wanted to point out this is an especially stupid point because it carries with it the assumption that women having abortion are sluts having sex out of wedlock.

jlzania, abortion and birth control are two different things.

[Chefguy]

@Ca3799

Are you saying that you had an abortion, but don’t want anyone else to have that choice?

Did you miss this little gem, as apparently did everyone else?
Vanilla

I will when I marry.
(of course, by then I will have had my tubes tied).

Pre-emptive abortion is still abortion, if I understand the screeching christian right’s mantra.

[Ilsa_Lund]

@vanilla

I had an unwanted pregnancy when my son was 1.
I ended it for what many would consider good reasons(father said its not mine and took off and got married, no money, quit job, no babysitter even, on welfare)

Did you miss this little gem? (Not trying to be snarky, just not sure what you’re trying to say)

[belladonna]

@Chefguy

Pre-emptive abortion is still abortion, if I understand the
screeching christian right’s mantra.

Is this true? I know Catholics, specifically, are against birth control (although it certainly doesn’t stop me from using it, or my highly devout mother from getting tied) but I’ve never heard of other denominations being anti-BC. An abortion removes an actual fetus, a tubal prevents said fetus from even forming. Even as a pro-choice kind of girl, I see a big difference between the two.

Any fundies want to clarify?

[GingerOfTheNorth]

@Ilsa_Lund

Did you miss this little gem? (Not trying to be snarky, just not sure what you’re trying to say)

It would appear to me that vanilla has had an abortion, but doesn’t think anyone else should ever be able to.

[jlzania]

Marley23-jlzania, abortion and birth control are two different things.

Not if you espouse the attitude of “Oh if I get pregnant, I’ll just have an abortion” while failing to adopt any other method of birth control.
That ** is** tantamount to using abortion as birth control which is a stupendously stupid concept but one I’ve heard expressed by an equally stupendously stupid woman.

[GingerOfTheNorth]

@Ilsa_Lund

Did you miss this little gem? (Not trying to be snarky, just not sure what you’re trying to say)

It would appear to me that vanilla has had an abortion, but doesn’t think anyone else should ever be able to.

[Aries28]

@belladonna

Is this true? I know Catholics, specifically, are against birth control (although it certainly doesn’t stop me from using it, or my highly devout mother from getting tied) but I’ve never heard of other denominations being anti-BC. An abortion removes an actual fetus, a tubal prevents said fetus from even forming. Even as a pro-choice kind of girl, I see a big difference between the two.

Any fundies want to clarify?

I’m not a “fundie” (God, I hate that word) but I am a Christian. I belong to a Southern Baptist Church and have for about 25 years now. No…we don’t believe birth control is the same as an abortion. We are not anti birth control.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

@jlzania

Not if you espouse the attitude of “Oh if I get pregnant, I’ll just have an abortion” while failing to adopt any other method of birth control.
That ** is** tantamount to using abortion as birth control which is a stupendously stupid concept but one I’ve heard expressed by an equally stupendously stupid woman.

Well, I promise not to consider all Christians to be closeminded, hate-filled clench-asses if you promise not to consider all pro-choice people to advocate abortion as birth control for brainless sluts.

Yes, yes, of course I read your first post and understand where you’re coming from! I’m just teasing you.

As to vanilla’s hard-right swerve: I too am disturbed by it. It seems out of character for the person I thought I knew. vanilla, you never struck me as harshly judgmental and cruelly dismissive of others. What’s up?