I do know Lynn73. I used to correspond with her. I used to like her. I used to defend her, and not just out of Christian duty. I got told off for that around here on occaision. I detailed why that changed in a Pit thread earlier this year. In the end, not only did she not show me any compassion and indirectly accuse me of being a traitor to Christ, she attacked me when I was down.
Since this is Christian to Christian, I’ll toss out Matthew 5:46-48, the good, old Sermon on the Mount, Jesus’ own words:
You’ve failed to address the issue of her lying about other forms of Christianity and, by extension, attempting to claim 1,000 to 1,500 years of Christians are condemned to eternal suffering.
I believe abortion is always wrong; I believe divorce is always wrong, as I had to gently remind an old friend of mine. Gently, because it may become necessary much as neither of us wants it to be. I still believe both should be legal because this is an imperfect world and sometimes the right thing cannot be done. Sometimes, I’ll even venture to say, evil wins a battle, although I won’t concede the war. We cannot change what has been done.
I’ve had sex outside of marriage. Do you condemn me? I never intend to have children, and I’m old enough that doing so means a higher risk of birth defects than I like. I do intend to have sex ideally with someone I’ll spend the rest of my life with. Do you condemn me? I am an unabashed, loud-mouthed sinner. Do you condemn me?
Grrrrrrrrrr. Damn you! You are making me break my cardinal rule, never post till you have read the whole thread because someone probably said it better and you will probably have calmed down by the end of the thread.
I have always appreciated your tolerant Christian attitude vanilla and I lurk at that other place where they tell you to leave often because you are not Christian enough…“how can you be tolerant of homosexuals?”
I have always been an athiest. I was bought up as one but people religous beliefs fascinate me so I have lurked there enough to see Lyn, Evee, Michee etc give you a hard time for being tolerant. I suppose in may ways you are stuck between a rock an a hard place. Be too “christian” here and you will be shouted at…be “too tolerant” there and you will be told to leave (and I have seen that)
That is what I admired about you though. Your ability to hold your own beliefs yet still be tolerant of those of others.
We all have bad times. Times where we are more adamant in our beliefs. Usually something sets that off. I hope whatever has set you off is more a hiccup then anything else (big hugs to you and your boy).
That said…I have one child and I have had two abortions. First abortion I was 20 and on the other side of the world. I was on the pill. The father was my yet-to-be-husband. He wanted the baby. I could see no way to afford to come home if we did have the baby and at that time I wasn’t convinced this was a relationship that would last forever. I chose to have an abortion.
Fast forward 4 years. I’m back home in NZ. My (now) husband is desperate to have a baby. I get caught up with his excitement. I come off the pill and become pregnant. You never ever saw a happier daddy…till 16 mths later when he killed himself.
I CHOSE to be sensible and not have a baby as an unmarried woman…I married him, had his child and ended up a sole parent! My baby was wanted and planned for, neither of those facts have prevented him from growing up fatherless.
Fast forward 10 years later. Back on the pill. I am sensible. I am using birth control (yes I know the bf had no diseases!). I am not christian so sex without marriage is not wrong as long as I am sensible. Well what do you know…VOILA, I’m pregnant.
I’m 35, single with a 10-ish year old child. Do I want a baby? NO. Will the dad be around as a permanent feature? NO. Does my son need the complication to his life? NO. So I had an abortion. It was much harder to have an abortion as a mother and in my sensible years then it was when I was young and stupid but BOTH times I was using birth control and made the BEST decision for that time in my life.
After I had my son I had an IUD inserted. It was brilliant but had to come out 6 yrs later. Now I have an IUD again. The pill does not work for everyone but because I have no religous convictions to prevent me doing do, damned if I’m not having sex. I was not irresponsible either time. Do I wish I was never in the position to have an abortion? Yes. Do I regret having done it? No!
The short end to the long story is being married doesn’t make for better children. Having parents who love them does. They might be married, single, gay, religous or not, whatever…that is who makes a happy child.
People can get pregnant when they are careful…and no sex till marriage is only an anwser for the deeply religous among us. If we are not religous we should have no options?
Abortion provides a throughly logical sensible approach for someone caught in a difficult situation. i t should not and I don’t believe any normal, sensible person sees it as a valid method of contraception.
Above all. We all have the right to our own belief. Because I believe abortion is a valid option does not mean any christian person will ever be forced to have one. Because I believe homosexual marriage is an obviously basic human right does not mean any christian will be forced to marry a homosexual. Because I believe an IUD is the best form of contraception for me doesn’t mean any christian is about to have a t-shaped thingy shoved thru their cervix. Because I believe christmas is about family and santa doesn’t mean a christian can’t think it’s about jesus.
We can actually all have different beliefs without trampling on each others.
I realllllllly apologise for not reading the whole thread before posting this.
Now those are the kind of Christians there should be more of. I am good friends with two of this brand (neither of whom have ever mentioned god, church or anything vaguely similar to me, just been there sometimes ). Long may they do what they are doing, they are beautiful people.
The bible says we can’t eat shellfish either. There is also a whole lot of smiting going on…OHHHHHHHHH now I get what mr Bush is doing! He’s smiteing the infidels!
Vanilla, since you’ve already broke your god’s rule, and you’re already going to your god’s hell, what exactly is your point? To save the rest of the heathens from a fate such as yours? You cannot be forgiven for everything. If you can, your religion is meaningless. If you can be forgiven for what you consider to be murder, all bets are off and all behaviors are game.
Very strange, indeed. You sitting here reaming your sisters up and down for something you did, and cannot be forgiven for. Nice church ya got there, V.
If nothing else pisses me off about religous types (ANY religion!) this is it! You are BAD till you admit you are BAD, then GOD says you are GOOD because you admitted your BADNESS.
yes! my plan is to live a live of sin and debauchery, then admit my sins on my deathbed…I’ll get to live how I want, then be admitted to heaven (or wherever) anyway!
I kept telling myself I was going to stay far, far away from this thread, but alas this is not to be…
I just wanted to say that it really irks me that people who are pro-life insist on calling people who are pro-choice things like “pro-abortion” and “pro-murder”, and doctors who perform abortions “abortion doctors”. I am pro-choice, not pro-everywomanshouldhaveanabortion. I, having never been pregnant, am very fortunate to never have had to make the decision on what to do with an unwanted child. I would never be so presumptuous as to try and make this decision for anyone else.
Also, what pro-lifers call “abortion” doctors don’t make their livings just performing abortions. Generally, they make their livings trying to prevent women from getting pregnant, even going so far as to giving free birth control and condoms (that’s why I’m not pregnant - unfortunately, this option is no longer available to me, as I’m not a student anymore). These doctors’ main goal is to prevent the need for abortion. If there were more doctors who were able to educate their patients on birth control, and more access to birth control for these women, then perhaps there would be far fewer abortions.
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Vanilla**, I’m sorry you regret your abortion, it is very sad that you feel you made the wrong decision. This does not give you the right to dictate what other women have the right to do, even in the name of god. Why? Because it is YOUR God, not everybody’s. Yes, you beleive that he should be everybody’s god, but it is people like you (or at least, like you have started acting since this thread started) that give a religion that is supposed to be about love and compassion a bad name. You are doing exactly what turns you off from the pro-choice activists you mentioned in the OP. Calling us idiots, bigots because we dont’ beleive as you do. Do you honestly think anybody who doesn’t already think as you do is going to leave this thread having changed their minds about abortion?
Well then, why bother to burden yourself with unwanted children, pregnancy, obnoxious neighbors, lack of money (just steal some) or the lofty task of correcting everyone who doesn’t live the way you want them to? It’s all forgiven in the end anyway, so I guess it wasn’t that bad now, was it? Your interpretation of the Big Book of Fiction reduces your religion to meaningless tripe. All behaviors are OK! No harm, no foul…right? Riiiiiight…
vanilla, you don’t know me from Adam, but I’d like you to please at least consider what I’m about to say.
When I was a little girl, I loved Jesus.
Although my parents weren’t practicing Christians, I still went to Sunday school on my own because the message that he loved me unconditionally with all my faults and foibles was so wonderful that I just wanted to learn more.
We moved vanilla, and I began to attend services at another church, a church that dwelt more on the laws and restrictions of the Old Testament then the word of the Lord.
That congregation reveled in the belief that although they were chosen, most of the rest of the world would burn in eternal torment.
I was repulsed and I turned away from Christ and Christianity for many many years.
Then something rather wonderful happened to me.
I began to encounter Christians like siege both IRL and on the Internet.
I began to read the Gospels and to really start to understand Christ’s message. And I realized that the judgmental people that had turned me off so long ago were, well, wrong.
They were intent on worshiping a god of fear and hate.
They thought of heaven as some sort of glorified Disney Land where the holy could spend an eternity saying “I told you so.”
They were big on self-righteous condemnation and extremely short on compassion.
Instead of serving as lights, they were contributing to the greater darkness.
Despite your protestations to the contrary, vanilla, you seem to be choosing the very type of Christian that turned me away from the Lord as a child.
Is this really want you want to do?
people seem to forget and want to forget that, although God is a God of love, He is also a God of Judgment.
Sin must be judged, sorry, no getting around that.
You want I should not warn people?
Great, then when they decide wrong and end up in Hell, I will think, Why didn’t I tell them?
Nope.
Probably because you can’t warn people who don’t believe in the concept of everlasting damnation. All it does is annoy the people you’re trying to warn. Sorry.
Can I please implore people who don’t believe to not think all Christians are like this? I understand being frustrated. I understand wanting to lash back out at people but when you insult the beliefs of those of us who are sincere, those of us who are trying to live the Golden Rule, those of us who don’t treat our religion and faith as a way to elevate ourselves to some higher plane and look down on everyone else it is just as hateful and harmful.
This is something I do see around here a lot. I have the utmost respect for those who don’t believe in things I do. I would never charge into a thread and insult them or belittle their beliefs or lack thereof. I only want the same courtesy in exchange.
I agree that this kind of “religion” is what makes those of us who are sincere look like idiots. There is always a handful of people on any side that make the rest of the people look bad.
). Long may they do what they are doing, they are beautiful people.