I agree with this and find it interesting that a lot of these Sanders supporters tend to either completely ignore or blow up minor differences with Elizabeth Warren. I think they know that Warren has accomplished a good deal more and has detailed policy proposals for her positions while being (at least) 80% as progressive as Sanders.
She is a progressive. She’s gotten things done in the Senate - a good reason is that she is able to work in the party in a way Sanders is not. So why would I back Sanders when I can back Warren instead?
Of course I was a huge Hillary Clinton supporter in 2008 and 2016, so I doubt Sanders supporters will listen to me anyways.
Sure, the Soc Sec expansion bill is fine, and needed, but it’s not just his idea, in fact the current one was introduced by Rep. John Larson, D-Connecticut.
He’s anti-nuke. And in favor of stopping global warming. Nuke power is one of the best ways to do that.
He hasnt produced his tax returns.
He won’t call off his Bernie-bros, and that possibly put Trump into office. He must know they cheerfully spread rumors and propaganda about his dem opponents, yet he won’t lift a finger to stop them.
He *can’t *win the general election. The portfolio of nasty dirty trick the GOP has ready for him will make him the biggest loser since Dukakis.
He wants to cut social security and medicare= Cite?
The only thing that comes close is a bi-partisan idea to limit or halt payouts to the wealthy who don’t need them. That’s not 'cutting social security".
Medicare?
hes pro-war by every stretch of the term= No he’s not. In fact his much touted “support” of the Iraq war is false. he only voted for that resolution after the Shrub gave Joe his personal assurance that GWB wouldnt use it to invade.
Pretty much *Everyone *voted for that crime bill, even Bernie. No one knew the consequences at that time.
Your "facts’ here sound a lot like what trump wants us to believe.
Not to mention “COMMUNISM, COMMUNISM,COMMUNISM…” Anyone that thinks the kremlin cant find a picture of Bernie at a Communist rally and cant fake up a communist party card in Bernies name is delusional. And a lot of Americans will beleive it.
Example in point= the Op with his GOP based attacks upon Biden right here in this thread. I expect more such attacks.
Another full post quote to show support, but especially important to me are #5 and #6. I simply do not think that Mr. Sanders has much chance of getting people to go along with his legislation. I simply don’t see him as having that kind of political capital or the goodwill necessary when capital is lacking. I like many of his ideas, proposals, policies, etc. but I don’t think he’d be a very effective president.
I think that Biden could legitimately be criticized as being a sucker for voting for that resolution, especially since his speeches made it clear that he didn’t think an unprovoked war was a very good idea. IIRC, Biden attempted to offer amendments to make the war resolution less of a blank check; but he failed and voted for it anyway. Again, that’s more like the actions of a sucker than a warmonger.
And if he is such a warmonger, it’s awfully hard to explain why he advised Obama not to conduct the Osama bin Laden raid. Again, he can be criticized for getting it wrong, but it isn’t fair to say that “no raid to get the 9/11 terrorist” is the position of a crazy guy with his finger on the button.
every delegate appointed by the DNC voted for hillary+ ??
while every non appointed delegate voted Sanders= Not even close,
Clinton won 2205 delegates, Sanders won 1846. There were only 712 Superdelegates and they made no difference at all in the nominations process in 2016. Note that 42 of them voted for Bernie. Generally they all vote for whichever candidate has won in the primaries. Just to make the record clear- 16,847,084
(55.20%) of the popular vote was for Clinton, while only 13,168,222
(43.14%) was for Sanders. The Superdelegates made no difference.
In actuality, Sanders only did was well as he did due to the totally UN-Democratic caucuses.
I really don’t think I could say it better than Gyrate did. I agree with every one of the points listed. I would only add the following - generally speaking his two largest policy positions of Medicare for All and free college are items I do not support. I am for UHC and I am for improving the ACA but I am not a fan of Bernie’s Medicare 4 All proposition. I think there is some alignment on this general issue of health care reform between Democrats and Progressives and my own desires, overall I am not happy with his specific solution. I am in 100% complete disagreement on the free college position. I disagree with the basic premise. I believe the high costs of college is a real problem but I don’t agree that making it free is the appropriate nor fiscally responsible response. I believe the money needed for this is better spent on other issues like health care, affordable housing, paying off the national debt, infrastructure, and a whole host of other “bigger problems” we have a country right now. Interest free student loans? Yes! Loan forgiveness with civic volunteering? Yes! Investment in trade-schools and better financial support? Yes! Free college tuition? No.
Notice the first chart, which ranks both his ideology and his “leadership.” He is the farthest left on the ideology scale of anyone in the senate, but ranks near the bottom in leadership.
What has Bernie Sanders done to deserve your support?
I said this in another thread. Bernie is a prophet, not a Messiah. Let him finish out his career in the Senate, fighting the good fight, and using his seniority to get a few tweaks into legislation that someone else is driving.
Personally, I very much favor Sanders’ views. My sole criticism of Obama was that he was too moderate, and that he pissed away too many opportunities trying to negotiate w/ the Repubs, when they had no interest in negotiation.
I think some of Sanders’ positions unrealistic or immediately unattainable, but I value having a leader who champions visionary, long range thinking. And if the Repubs are going to reflexively oppose anything a Dem proposes, well, might as well set up the goalposts at an extreme, rather than adopting a reasonable position and presuming the other side will compromise.
Not at all a fan of Bernie’s age. I appreciate that he appeals to young people, but at age 58, I’d definitely like to see more folk under the age of 60 assume the roles of party leaders.
But I don’t see Sanders as electable at all. Too many people are stupid enough that the Socialist label will scare them off. I doubt he’d attract moderate Dems, and I doubt there are many - if any - Repubs who would cross over.
I’m getting more and more resigned to another 4 years of Trump. The economy appears to be going great - which a great many folk will vote on. I think we need someone more charismatic and moderate to have any chance of defeating him. So, despite Biden’s age - and my lack of enthusiasm for him - I’m becoming more resigned to his candidacy.
But I live in dependably blue IL. So my opinion really doesn’t matter. The only question is how does a particular candidate appeal to OH/MI/WI/Penn - and maybe a couple of other states that are in play.
To tell the truth, there are simply too many candidates for me to really firm up my opinions. My preferences are for someone on the younger side, and/or non-white male. But I think it likely misogyny contributed to Hillary’s loss. So I’ll take another old white male Dem, over Trump. Just fear Biden is more electable than Bernie.
Also I think the OP’s post is part of the issue. The issue is framed by Bernie supporters that backing Sanders is the obvious default - so you have to say why you don’t support him. The way the question is framed seems to indicate some sort of incredulousness that people may not back him.
I agree with most of Bernie’s policies, and will certainly vote for him if he should become the Democratic nominee. But I have concerns about his extremism. I think he has trouble compromising, and accepting baby steps in the right direction. He is, IMHO the embodiment of Perfection is the enemy of the good - Voltaire. He shames those who support “mere” improvements, and his rhetorical style supports the polarization of our government.
I would love to see a revolution in our governmental policies and priorities, but it is necessary to have a President who is also capable of managing conflicting views. Someone who can work to repair our image with foreign governments would also be nice. I think Bernie has some of the same social ineptness that President Trump has. They both go overboard with harsh communication, they are just communicating different opinions. I have seen Bernie openly contemptuous of fellow politicians - that never leads to compromise.
We need someone with tact, intellect, and negotiation skills. To my mind, Warren fits the bill much better than Sanders.
While I agree with the reasons listed in this thread for “not supporting” Bernie, I do think the OP raises a fair question. “This guy has policies that should make him popular here, but he’s not. Why is that?”
Even though I’m the #1 Sanders hater on the SDMB, I guess I’m a bit late to the party. I’m still tired of debunking all the conspiracy theories in 2016. Every time Bernie, it was the fault of the DNC or someone else. Now, if Bernie wins a Saturday afternoon caucus over Easter weekend? That means he has proven he definitely needs to be the nominee. Losing a big state like the New York primary? ‘It was rigged!’
I’m curious, Barack Obama: Are you aware that nothing you wrote in that long post had anything whatsoever to do with refuting any point I made in my post that you quoted?
If Bernie gets the nomination, he is going to have to spend too much time explaining the difference between democratic socialism and socialism, and nobody who isn’t a yellow dog Democrat is going to be listening after the second sentence. Decades in the Senate, and not even one bill that establishes any of the massive reforms and re-orgs he says he wants. LBJ was a powerful President, because he was used to getting legislation passed. Bernie - isn’t.
Plus, he’s Jewish. Blacks are not going to turn out for him. And not that they will vote Trump instead - they won’t vote.
If it’s Trump vs. Sanders, Trump will be re-elected.
I don’t think he will get the nomination, and the BernieBros will complain about it just as much this time too.
Good question, given (a) their being pretty close ideologically, (b) Warren’s more productive track record, despite a much more recent entry into politics, and (c) Warren’s much more substantive policy proposals.
Additionally, by now they’ve been *told *the myriad reasons umpteen times over. If they still don’t understand or accept them, the umpteenth-and-one attempt isn’t going to get through either.
??