Why don't you support Bernie Sanders? (if you don't)

Politics & Elections
61

Of course I will vote for him. However, I feel that his support for Hillary was sufficient lukewarm that it led directly to the current situation and that the so-called progressives have forfeited any right to calling policy.

From what I have read, he was brilliantly effective as mayor of Burlington and was able to work well with the business community there. But that is a long way from working well with the current crop of deplorables that is the Republican party. So I don’t think his election would change much. He would in fact, have to govern by executive order which has been the case for a couple decades. Just as agent orange reversed nearly everything Obama did any elected Dem would reverse everything Trump has done.

That said, I oppose his candidacy because he is unelectable. Two thousand years ago they crucified a Jewish socialist and not much has changed since them. They would emphasize the socialism, but the other would be in the background for vicious dog whistles (“cosmopolitan” maybe). If the Dems nominated W, I would still vote against Trump, little as I like W.

62

For what it’s worth, I would be equally happy with either Sanders or Warren as President, and will make any decision I might make between them based on their relative electability. Or, of course, depending on the data, I may well vote for some third candidate over both of them, who I like less, if that third candidate show evidence of being more electable, because beating Trump is more important than getting the best possible Democrat. As of right now, Sanders appears to be more electable than Warren, and so I’m supporting him over her, but that might change.

63

Because Buttigieg sounds a lot more presidential to me. I like Bernie’s ideas but he appeals to the fringe, not the mainstream. He has been an activist all his life, and that’s great, but that isn’t what we need as a president. I just can’t envision him in the role. He’s an old intransigent curmudgeon, not a president.

Come to think of it, isn’t that what people really mean when they talk about “electability”? Picturing that person in the Oval Office? It’s one big reason why Warren and Harris are going to have an uphill battle – the majority of Americans can’t visualize a woman president. Stupid maybe but I think it is true.

64

I’m not sure. It isn’t that a MAJORITY of folk can’t visualize a woman pres, but that a sufficient amount are unable to to prevent them fro winning the office.

Really sad to think that a majority of folk really saw Trump as the most “presidential.” Instead, I believe a significant portion of his winning margin came from folk who would never vote Dem, or who would never vote for a woman. Not to say there were no reasons to dislike Hillary, but I cannot imagine how any sentient multi-celled creature could better imagine Trump in the oval, unless they were viewing Presidential politics as reality TV, or desiring of pissing off specific groups.

65

They didn’t, in fact. Clinton won the popular vote.

66

On the contrary I believe Bernie Sanders has the best chance to beat trump because he actually proposes new ideas that other candidates are riding along with. In 2016 I believe Bernie Sanders would have beaten trump. The trump voters who voted trump for economic reasons such as fear of losing SS, healthcare, jobs, will vote Bernie once they hear his proposals. And I think it’s undeniable that Sanders has the strongest youth base, he does better with younger voters than any other candidate. I think in 2020 we’ll see a lot more support from the black and latino communities, as well as higher voter turnout as we saw in the mid terms. Bernie and Trump have both sparked interest in politics, whens the last time a bunch of kids were telling their friends about domestic policy and a white haired old guy? I sure as hell never that much or in depth of an interest in politics until 2016.

Biden and Trump are around the same age. Most older people tend to be more conservative, hence why you see older presidents not being as good as younger presidents like JFK.

Most democratic candidates are running on UHC.

Video of a centrist dismissing M4A and getting boo’d lmao

some poll

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/05/15/poll_medicare_for_all_support_is_high__but_complicated_140327.html

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/29/politics/medicare-for-all-polling/index.html

I think the main issue with UHC is most people don’t understand the healthcare system or other healthcare systems enough to have an educated opinion. However the more information people get, the more bernie talks about it, the more people support it. I think you’d have to be extremely naive to run against establishing a national healthcare system in 2020, and when the debates roll around I bet you Biden will be tanking in the polls while Bernie skyrockets.

67

His SS expansion bill for example, says that it’ll start taxing people again after the $250k earnings mark on capital gains and dividends as well. You right now are only taxed up to $130k. It also measures the cost of things differently by switching from CPI-W to CPI-E. And it combines the OASI and DI so you dont have politicians pulling money out from disabled people to give to retirees or vice versa.

As for his M4A bill theres like dozens of proposals hes made for it and I’ve heard. Personally I really would like to see gains and dividends taxed as income, and I’d like to see a lower income tax rate on people making less than 6 figures.

68

I think being a women has a lot less to do with it than most people think. Same with being black. I think Obama for example got elected because he proposed changes that regular Americans thought would be better for them. Such as the ACA.

Trump voters, excluding the delusional trolls, and racists, are mostly people who wanted change as well. However they’re inside of their own bubbles, so anything a traditional democrat proposes especially someone like Hillary they’re going to totally dismiss. Let’s take coal miners for example, Hillary proposed shifting these peoples jobs to renewable sector, insuring they wont lose their jobs when coal mines shut down. Trump said he would keep the mines open, so being a little naive, with a mix of tribalism, and a healthy dose of skepticism towards people corporatists, coal miners voted trump.

69
70

As you are a Sanders supporter let me ask you: Are you going to support the Democratic nominee, no matter who it is?

71

Personally I will (wont vote for Biden, Harris, Yang or some lesser known ones like Pete.), but as a Sanders supporter let’s say no. And that should scare you, especially if you’re a centrist democratic in washington. That should terrify you, and it’s the truth.

By you, I’m speaking more generally, but if you want Bernie Bros to vote Harris, Booker, Biden, or even Warren, Tulsi, or Yang then you’re going to have to be more detailed about what specifically you want to do on the same issues as Bernie.

Let’s take Yang for example, he doesn’t want to raise the minimum wage despite it being the same since 2009. He also doesn’t want to support Medicare for all, nor does he propose an alternative or anything substance based. There are some pros to his UBI proposal, however until he lays out a bill or something specific with substance then I can’t be certain he wont pull some of the cons, such as phasing out peoples aid in place of UBI.

I dislike bookers voting history on things that affect the pharma companies, I also dislike his campaigns being funded by pharma companies indicating a conflict of interest in my opinion. I dislike Harris her past records when prosecuting families for truancy for example. I dislike Biden for basically everything (I’ve met him a few times, I like him personally but not politically).

Warren and Tulsi I’m on the fences about. I can see myself voting for them, but I would always pick Bernie over them. Let’s say Bernie wasn’t in the race, I would immediately gravitate towards Warren, or tulsi.

Also worth noting I don’t trust anyone else with proposing the things Bernie has. I’m fairly certain most Bernie Bros feel the same way, unless ur going to actually propose a SS expansion bill or healthcare bill like Sanders, then you aren’t getting my vote. Also if Ro khanna was running I would certainly vote for him over warren.

72

So you’ll vote for the Democratic nominee, no matter who it is, unless it’s Biden, Harris, Yang or Pete. Cool. This is why Sanders and his supporters can go ahead and run on a third party ticket and forget about the Democrat charade. I know what you’re thinking. But if Sanders runs as an independent he’ll find out how little support he actually has.

73

To me, this sounds like people should only buy iPhones in 2019 because Apple has the great idea in 2006.

Again, all the candidates I’ve looked at with only a couple exceptions are basically all different flavors of the same ice cream store. You’re making out Bernie like he’s a Baked Alaska when to me he’s merely pistachio.

While noting that Bernie is four years older, do you look back at what you wrote here and think, “Hells yeah, I made a really good point there!” Like, something worth other people thinking about?

Define your terms a little more clearly and I’ll bet you $50 that you’re wrong.

74

Heres my stance on the issue. There is no viable leftist party in the United States. Democrats for the most part, are just as bad as Republicans. See this is the issue when you run a supposedly leftist party. The left, opposes power. So of course you’re going to see more in party fighting, and competition of ideologies, because we oppose power. The Democratic party has only 2 choices, you either move left, or you die in the middle of the road trying to play ball with both sides. The reason why trump is president right now is because a bunch of 35+ year old men think trying to concede to the right is how you get policy and legislation passed. Then you know what happens? You end up with the ACA, and we all know how badly that backfired. Even though it was middle ground, republicans absolutely shitted on Obama for it, and for good reason too.

Sanders runs as an independent his whole life, and he’s one of the strongest candidates for office in the US. When it comes to the presidential race, Sanders runs as a democrat so he can be on those debate stages and appeal to more people, the democratic party is simply a platform for sanders to express his views hes been expressing since day one. I find it absurd there are regular normal people who actually agree with centrist politics, who think they can find a middle ground on every issue, and think the status quo is great. The bottom line is democrats tried putting a centrist against trump, she lost. Now tell me this, do you think putting Biden against trump stands a better chance than Hillary? Do you think Biden could have won 2016? Why?

75

What do you think the cons of being old are on policy decisions? I think the cons are that old people are more moderate, or conservative. They want things to stay the way they are. Bernie opposes this in everyway, so the cons of being old do not affect his policy. On the contrary he proposes new things that spark interest, such as M4A, college free tuition, etc.

76

Massive tax cut for the super-rich? Great. How?
New massive war with Iran? Great. How?

AOC is right - we never ask these questions about the insanely expensive policy proposals of the right. If they’re feeling generous, they may throw out some bullshit numbers claiming that the giant tax cut will pay for itself, but the answer is always “we don’t care, just get it done”.

UHC and free college are like that, except they’re actually good, valuable things that make life better for people who aren’t, respectively, the ultra-rich and the ultra-rich who own stock in Lockheed Martin. Why can’t we just pretend it’ll pay for itself, and when the bill comes in, say, “Sorry, we have to cut down the military to pay for these things we need”?

77

In 2016 Biden would have mopped the floor with Trump. This time, I’m not sure. Thanks for helping me to decide what I thought about Sanders.
(And by the way, on the slim offchance that Sanders gets the Dem nomination, he’s got my vote.)

78

Guess you don’t have any reasoning for that.

79

Those F35s sure made my life a lot better. I really like paying the government to fuel the military industrial complex. :smiley:

80

Thus, you prefer trump to* Biden, Harris, Yang or some lesser known ones like Pete.*

That doesnt scare me, it’s one more reason why I wont support Sanders.

Ro Khanna is a carperbagger who couldnt beat a GOP candidate if he tried.