Exactly. That doesn’t terrify me, it just tells me that Sanders is the candidate of choice for people with enough privilege that they’d rather throw a snit than care what happens to minorities, LGBT, women, etc.
Which isn’t much of a selling point.
I prefer not to vote for a candidate I do not support. I am not going to be morally responsible for their apprehensible actions. Whether you agree with it or not, thats how most “Bernie Bros” feel. IT also has nothing to do with Sanders, his strongest support is from people who hold principles and substance over identity politics, tribalism, and all around submissiveness towards the current system. His core base is a reflection of the things he says and does, hence why he is unbeatable in his home state.
I don’t think it indicates a lack of care for marginalized people. I wont support someone who’s going to possibly hurt those people, such as Biden by say reducing aid, or for proposing things against their interest. If you voted for Bill Clinton for example, then he turns around and repeals glass seagull, guess what in my eyes you’re responsible for that. You voted for him, his actions are a reflect your vote. Just like anyone who voted Trump, but does not condone children dying in ICE custody. They are responsible, they staked their vote in our democracy on him, own up to it.
If you dont vote for the Dem candidate, you are morally responsible for trumps reprehensible actions.
And the 2016 election made it clear that few Bernie voters feel that way. Nearly all voted for Clinton.Just a few trump supporters didnt.
But who require their candidate to run as a Democrat. Real idealists, ain’t they?
You know, if someone cares more about satisfying moral rightness than about politically desirable results, I’m fine with them refusing to give anyone the vote. Unfortunately, one of the extant parties has been smashingly succesful at convincing a segment of the population that voting for them*** is*** a show of moral righteousness, whoever it is that runs even if that’s Trump, and that segment does “lend” their votes.
You are wrong. This is a Trumpist talking point. By saying this, you are supporting Trump.
This is a ridiculous and absurd statement, and I believe you know it is too.
The democratic party in comparison to European leftist parties, is center right. Democrats in America would sooner turn a blind eye to the king then revolt. They are paid to lose, paid to concede, to republicans. Trump has by all means portrayed dems as “radical leftists”, he’s never once dared to bring up the fact most democrats are centrists.
By supporting centrist democrats, you are supporting right winged politics. You are supporting those who allow the republicans to tear apart this country. You can’t vote for joe manchin then turn around and claim you’re a leftist.
Also mind you, the dems voted in favor of patriot act, repeal glass seagull, crime bill, and to go to in iraq and afgan. Reagan would have never dreamed of doing half of what Bill Clinton did when it comes to deregulating the banks.
I guess the jews are also responsible for Hitler’s actions? Do you understand how absurd that is?
Barack Obama if you cannot see the difference between Trump’s administration and your fairly centrist Democrat namesake’s then there really isn’t much point in engaging with you. The long term damage from SCOTUS picks under Trump alone is huge.
The position you express is way beyond ridiculous and absurd, even if you are so blinkered as to not know it.
There is a big difference, but my point is centrists concede to trumps positions. However the notion democrats are leftists couldnt be further from the truth. If it were, then we’d have UHC by now. A centrist, is willing to do the bidding of a republican. A leftist, will fight tooth and nail with a republican. A centrist, will let republicans put whatever fucked up shit they want into a bill just so they can get some votes to get it through, a leftist stands their ground and refuses to add bullshit to their bill they’re proposing.
I’m not calling for absolute discourse or increased tribalism. But i am calling for a real leftist party, with real leftist leaders. The democratic party USED to represent the average american, from the grass roots level. That has changed, they now represent corporate america. Luckily with the help of progressives that’s changing, and Bernie specifically is pushing centrists to the left.
Two reasons:
—1---
No matter who gets elected, Trump, or a Democrat, the economy will crash in the next presidential term. The cards are stacked far worse than 2007 and the economy is likely already in a recession. It should be noted that the declaration of a recession is an after-the-fact matter, economic indicators trail present conditions.
Should this virtual inevitability come to pass, whomever is in office at the time will be blamed, and more pointedly, whatever ideology is in office at the time will be blamed. It really does not matter why the crash happens, the blame will go straight to the top. If a socialist is there, then “see, socialism = venezuela!” If a democrat is there then it’s “See? Obama = crash. <Democrat> = crash!” If and only if the crash happens with a Republican in office will blame be finally placed where it is due.
I do not want to see a socialist like Bernie get elected only for all the crap that rampant corruption and greed has laid at the feet of the economy to be blamed on his beliefs when they are totally unrelated. The backlash against it would give us a Fascist potentially worse than Trump - like a competent, bona-fide gas-the-minorities Neo-Nazi in 2024. Economic devastation is the trigger for most fascist takeovers.
—2---
I do prefer Warren and have wanted a Warren/Sanders ticket since before the primary season for the last election. I was devastated when Warren said she wouldn’t run. Sanders would make a fine president in better economic circumstances - beginning a term under a sword of Damocles is hardly ideal - but Warren’s wonkishness is more likely to produce the kind of results Sanders advocates for. I believe she produces more effective policy, even if I believe in Sander’s message and respect him for his steadfast objectives.
I note, however, that the VP does not have nearly as many responsibilities as the President, which would allow a VP Sanders to do exactly as he has promised - primary the living hell out of every last politician who sells out, stonewalls, or opposes the Progressive agenda.
I would rather see Warren/Sanders than Sanders/Etc.
And that’s it (TLDR): I think that electing either will backfire because of the nuclear time bomb the corrupt croneys have generated, and I think Warren has better policy whereas Sanders would do better with the freedom to strike against political opposition as VP.
If it must be a democrat, let Biden/Croney-Centrism take the economic hit. His flailing attempts to save his masters in wallstreet would do well to stir up another OWS-like movement. He has no use to the progressive cause otherwise.
You obviously missed the never ending RONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAUL spam in 2008 and, to a lesser extent, 2012. So many similarities between the two.
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Even if the worse was to happen and Bernie gets the worse end of the stick, I don’t care and I’m sure he doesn’t care. It’s not about his reputation or what people may think. I believe if the very worse possible outcomes did occur, Bernie could lessen the burden we feel more than anyone else would. If theres anyone who could deal with that situation it’s him, he seems to actually care about the country unlike some people.
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Kinda a jab here, but Bernies been proposing the same shit he’s proposing now when Warren was a registered republican. But none the less I agree.
Nah that seems short sighted and naive. I don’t think we’ll hit a recession after trump, I think we’ll have a lot of negative effects to deal with, but it wont be as bad as 08. Returns aren’t going to go negative.
It does terrify me, because that’s the reason we wound up with Donald Trump. And if you think Biden, Harris, Yang or Buttigieg is going to damage the things you believe in more than a Donald Trump 2nd term, then you’re hopelessly misguided.
And if a shiny pink unicorn were running, I’d prefer it over any of the current candidates. This election is not about catering to your personal whims, it’s about stopping the United States from becoming even more of a nation neither you nor I want to live in.
Both my daughter and my daughter in law were unable to find affordable health care before the ACA. My daughter was unable to find ANY health insurance before the ACA. Now they are both insured. Sure, their health care plans aren’t perfect (I’m on Medicare, and neither is mine,) but they’re a lot better than the NO health insurance they had before Obamacare. That Republicans have tried to repeal the ACA 55 times is all the more reason why I’ll vote for ANY Democratic candidate before Donald trump.
First off, I’m a regular, normal person who’s a centrist and I find your attitude not only absurd, but incredibly patronizing. I don’t think the status quo is great and I reject your excluded middle. And yes, I think Biden would have had a better chance against Trump because Hillary ran possibly the worst campaign of any major party candidate since Michael Dukakis in 1988. Biden had, and still has, more residual appeal in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania than Hillary, and would not have treated those states like flyover country while he was busy raising more money on the coasts.
You are responsible for your opinions and your actions. Do us all a favor and walk away from the Democratic Party, which you obviously find distasteful, instead of corrupting it with your own purity.
Supportive emphasis mine.
Also, I’m sick to death of naifs telling me I MUST vote for Bernie, or for nobody at all. It shows a complete unawareness of how working politics works. Then there is this sick and offensive gem which betrays a complete lack of understanding of politics in Germany in 1932 and 1933:
Do us a favor and learn a thing or two before you next speak.
I don’t think they would be worse, but I’m not going to vote for them. And thats not why trump won, trump won because the DNC pushed their personal favorite candidate despite the American people appearing to want Bernie instead. That’s what happens when you force something down our throats, we refuse and say fuck you.
And nah I think I’ll stay registered to vote dem, so I can change the party to represent the american people instead of corporations. Hopefully centrists in washington living in their bubble learned their lesson, if not we can do 4 more years of this until it gets through their heads Americans had enough of the status quo.
Ah yes, Bernie had the election stolen from him. Just like Donald Trump was claiming the election was stolen from him before he confused himself and won. Then, because he just KNEW someone was stealing something, he insisted the popular vote was stolen.
And what happens when YOU force something down MY throat? I’ll vote for Bernie if it comes down to him vs. Trump. If you won’t do the same for Biden et al, I’ll see you in the Pit.
And what makes ANYONE think Bernie would not have been creamed in 2016? That socialist thing alone would’ve lost more votes than it gained. Barack, get out of your social bubble and talk to people, liberal, modeerate, and conservative, and LISTEN. Plus learn some history and work on a campaign or two. Get away from true believers like yourself.
He is a sexist who left his child and his child’s mother on welfare because he couldn’t be bothered to hold a real job, preferring to pursue his “journalism” Women journalist from New Hampshire HATE covering him - and many refuse to - because of his sexist behavior. During the last campaign season, pay inequity between male and female staffers was extreme.
He’s a nutjob who published an opinion piece the the reason there is cancer is that teenage girls don’t put out enough. Granted, long ago, but anyone who ever puts pen to paper to record that one of the problems with society is that underage girls don’t have enough casual sex has disqualified themselves from office.
He’s sponsored one substantive piece of legislation while in office.