As DrDeth indicated, if there was a major injury, I would expect whoever the EMS/EMT/medical first responder is to document it–especially per that statute. No, I wouldn’t expect a police report to include it–especially when the police knew whether EMS/EMT/med. first responder deemed it major and if I knew whether the police knew that the EMS/EMT/first medical responder, the people/entity with the duty, deemed it necessary to document. Again, let’s see that SFD report first.
In the years I’ve been doing the particular area of the law I spend most of my time doing, I have probably seen upwards of 400 police reports. Of those, I would say I have seen about 30 where the medical records show a refusal of further treatment at the scene. I can think of only two instances where the police saw fit to also document it. One was where a driver’s brain was visible through a break in the skull. I talked to that poor Trooper later–he was scared to death although, at some point before leaving the scene, the driver did consent to go to the hospital via his friend driving him there!!!
I’m fairly sure we have not heard any actual statement from Zimmerman other than what may be 2nd hand in the police report. And, it is not in the portion of the police report available to the public.
As far as Zimmerman’s attorney spouting off on what Zimmerman says, I don’t think there has been a direct comment one way or the other.
Well, my usual rejoinder would have been: yes, but there’s an entire forum dedicated to baseless speculation – go do it there.
Honesty requires me to report this reaction, since I must admit that in this case, the topic is in fact in that forum, making your view the correct one.
No it is the people who are attacking Zimmerman who are saying that. They claim George Zimmerman said that and then reference the video to claim he was lying or the Sanford PD was lying. The Sentinel articles that references the police report don’t say that. I didn’t listen to the interview with Robert Zimmerman, so I don’t know what he says, but it would be, as Bricker says, hearsay.
The question I asked was: do they routinely do it?
When I was practicing law, I must have reviewed thousands of police reports. As a public defender, I found my clientele would often choose to decline medical attention, at least more so than the average run of mankind.
Very seldom did this information appear in police reports.
If I had to guess, I’d say fewer than 5% of instances where the suspect was examined but declined medical attention had that fact annotated in the police reports.
This was not Sanford, Florida, but your objection seems to go to the practice as a whole.
So when you say that because the detail does not appear in the police reports, it’s safe to assume it didn’t happen, that’s simply factually not true, based on my experience in the field.
ETA: another law professional, BottledBlondeJeanie, has a similar story to tell.
When the law places an onus for reporting one place, the absence of reporting in another place means very little.
I spent years doing criminal law work and found the police extremely rarely documented refusals of medical treatment. What is your response to that fact?
As a defense attorney I often have to play devil’s advocate. Sometimes it’s not that hard. I will say, if all this sorts out in a factual way, which we’re not even sure has not pretty much happened via the investigation version 1.0, and Zimmerman was some sort of loose cannon vigilante, I might even support suits against the HOA. But that presumes that it sorts out that way, and that the HOA knew and did nothing.
I feel dirty now. I’ve already come out as someone who would be all for a civil suit against Zimmerman for negligence. Time to shower a’la Crying Game…or a Silkwood shower as youngsters refer to that nowadays.
Not true – they need to note things related to their own observations and duties. Medical treatment is not their province. They should note things that no one else is noting.
If Zimmerman wasn’t under arrest could he have gone home if he wanted and not gone to the police station for further questioning?
Can the EMTs or police insist someone go to the hospital in the case of head injury if it seems to them the persons judgement is impaired because of it? If the answer is yes then would it be safe to assume that Zimmerman showed no signs of brain injury to the police that would merit such an insistence.
Depends. He could have been detained (although I don’t know if that’s allowed in Florida). In any case, whether he went voluntarily, was detained or arrested, his cooperation in interrogations there was voluntary.
I don’t know why people are stuck on this. The law does not require grave bodily injury in order to claim self-defense. It requires reasonable fear of grave bodily injury.
Could he have gone home? Possible, but the police do have the power to briefly detain someone for investigative purposes without arresting them. This power can be used when the police have reasonable suspicion that the suspect is involve din criminal activity. Reasonable suspicion is a level of belief below that of probable cause, but higher than a mere hunch or guess. If the police wanted to detain him for a period of time, they could, without having probable cause.
To bring someone involuntarily into the station for questioning must generally involve probable cause.
Yes, there are almost always exceptions in the rule for someone who is unconscious or not lucid. But the standard is high. EMTs cannot typically say, “Look, you’ve gotten a head injury, and so therefore I must insist on treating you.” In order to administer treatment against the patient’s wishes, typically the patient would have to be clearly and obviously irrational apart from simply refusing treatment.
It goes toward trying to figure put who is telling the truth. Many of Zimmerman’s public defenders are painting a picture that seems at odds with what actually happened.
Sure. Now, I want to point out that one reason why he wasn’t arrested is likely that he cooperated fully. If he had insisted on going home and lawyered up, they might well have “arrested him”, then he’d have been freed a day or so later since no charges would have been filed.
Great, if there were wounds, they should be documented in the SFD report since they were the folks who rendered treatment to Zimmerman i.e., they were the “provider” per statute. Again, those aren’t released yet. HIPAA protects them, but there may be other reasons we haven’t seen them yet–for instance this matter is still being investigated.
And while we’re at it, so many of you are saying the police report is faked to support Zimmerman or includes both initial and supplemental information and may not be complete. You can’t have it both ways. You suspect the police report? Then quit using it to show a lack of documentation of Zimmerman’s injuries.