Really? Because I see a couple of posts of his that are quite recent.
And we don’t even know if that is true.
Yes, he’s bad at the leaving part. But he’s admitted as much. Doesn’t change my point.
It’s the reason he gave. Are you calling him a liar?
The last few posts of gdave’s, from a couple of days ago, all mentioned leaving the board. There have been no posts since then. All of them seemed to be “getting my affairs in order” sort of posts, and had the ring of finality to them. I believe gdave has now left.
Suggesting that someone may not have perfect insight into their own state of mind is not calling them a liar.
The bare words DrDeth used are not anywhere as nuanced as your gloss and “suggested” nothing of the sort.
And “suggesting” someone is a fool is not better than “suggesting” they are a liar, anyway.
I stated this before in my original replay to @gdave’s leaving, although not in the exact same words, but considering some of the rancor in the recent posts as well as gdave’s followup, I wanted to re-iterate.
I don’t think either side (@Chronos or @Gdave) are particularly in the wrong here, and blaming either does both and the board as a whole a disservice. @gdave has a deeply personal investment in the subject, and as do many in that case, felt that his concerns would be obvious and self-evident to the mods and others - this happens to a lot of involved individuals.
@chronos and the mods dealt with the immediate issue, but their lack of deep knowledge on the subject material left them asking questions, and to be honest, the way we all push and question on this board could easily lead to impressions of being aggressive or unsupporting. In most forums, we value some sort of aggression in combating ignorance, and it’s relatively few posters who ask without pointed intent.
Combine that with gdave already being emotionally involved, and it would be easy to see them find that attitude dismissive, even insulting, and the result is as we see.
Neither side is particularly in the wrong IMHO - it’s a clash of our board culture’s style as much as anything, and a subject with a deep emotive aspect. We’ve lost many members over the years to this exact issue before efforts were made to reign in certain subjects and attitudes. This one is probably a bit more unique because we don’t have/share gdave’s investment, but it is part of any community, online or not.
Just don’t want to see other posters/mods tearing each other apart over what seems to me to be good intentions on all sides - nor should @gdave be singled out for not being tough-skinned or the like when they are far from unique on the issue, and who tried to make his concerns known before leaving. I find it hopeful that they may be lurking from time to time and may one day feel comfortable returning.
That’s ridiculous. Nobody called anyone a liar, nobody called anyone a fool. I’d venture to suggest that nobody has perfect insight into their own state of mind, I know I don’t.
Perfect insight isn’t necessary, but the suggestion here is that gdave has no insight at all, which is clearly contradicted by his followup post. He has laid his feelings and emotions quite out in the open.
Nobody is disputing OP’s honesty in describing his own emotional reaction. That would be highly inappropriate and insensitive - it would amount to an accusation of lying.
But one person’s emotional reaction does not determine whether @Chronos actually said anything inappropriate. You have not seen the moderation, and drawing strong inferences based on OP’s subjective account is not justified or appropriate, nor is your implacable hostility toward the moderators in this thread.
Which is why I drew them based on the OP’s account AND the moderators’ account. As I’ve said to you before. So you repeating this is starting to look deliberate.
Criticism is not hostility. I feel I’ve been fairly evenhanded in my responses, offering suggestions for improvement (even if that proved unworkable with the current setup) and complimenting proposed mod action I approve of, just as much as I’ve called out what I don’t like. “Implacable hostility” is far from accurate.
Get off your high horse. You just repeated a claim that you explicitly derived from OP’s subjective account, so don’t accuse me of acting in bad faith when I rebut. Saying “but that’s not my only reason” is just evading the question of whether this reason was a good one.
I just wanted to say that this looks like a good summary to me. And I’ve seen people get upset about being “challenged” on things they feel are blindingly obvious before, and that’s what it looked like to me.
Agreed.
gdave, I hope that you’re still reading here (or that you eventually will). Man, can you chalk this one up to just people talking past each other, to human misunderstanding? I think that you’re a good guy, and I think that Chronos is a decent fellow, too.
Your problems, I think, should not have reached this stage.
I agree. I miss his contributions and his general good sense.
I trust that you are accurately representing your interpretation of what @Chronos said. Just like I trust that @gdave is accurately representing his interpretation of what @Chronos said. It’s not that I don’t trust you guys, but that I also trust @gdave.
The only way to clear this up would be to allow us to see what Chronos said. The OP said they would like to show us, but they no longer have access to the thread. So it would seem it’s up to you mods to post what he said. It is unclear to me why you have not done so to clear this all up.
Without anyone posting the actual posts, people are going to judge based on their gut feelings.
My gut feelings
Chronos did at some point refer to those who captured the Russian prisoners of war as heroes, despite their horrible actions. However, this was in the context of asking for information.
The mods assume that this was not his personal opinion, but him saying that this is how some people might see it. gdave sees it as his personal opinion.
And, crucially, Chronos did not apologize nor clarify. Just like he hasn’t said anything here. As such, it is entirely fair for gdave to assume that he does in fact see them as “heroes.”
He came back to see if Chronos had ever apologized. He had not. And he then he discovered that multiple posters thought the slur “retard” should be allowed. As he was in special education growing up himself, that was the last straw any chance that he had of ever coming back.
I also believe he is a person with a very strong moral code and hold himself to his word. Plus he would be made fun of if he comes back after “flouncing.” So I doubt anything short of an apology from Chronos would help. And he’d probably need to sent it to his email.
I sympathize with all of this. I personally would not leave over this, especially since the video was removed. But referring to people who capture POWs and torture them as heroes and not apologizing or clarifying does make me think less of a person.
It’s just that I decided way back in 2009 that I would not leave a place I otherwise enjoyed over a single person or even a handful of people. Though it helps that the video was removed and it does seem that “retard[ed]” will be modded.
But if I had stopped enjoying this place, this would be one hell of a last straw.
I doubt it. Most people here would never behave so childishly. I mean, unless the poster had been an asshole previously, which isn’t the case here.
I think most people have given gdave a lot of support here, in general, as a poster, even if there are some specific criticisms of how this incident went down.
In other words, we like gdave.
I don’t care what a Mod said in a PM. And the only reason to demand it, is to give the Mod a hard time.
The poster has already left the board, (is it two or three times now?) and we won’t change his mind, nor should we try.
I have nothing but respect for him from prior interactions. In this thread I’ve expressed skepticism about the objectivity of his account - because he’s told us himself that he’s heavily emotionally invested in this issue. I don’t believe in patronizing someone by treating them with kid gloves in this situation - I think it’s better for them to hear people without the same level of investment call it the way they see it. The reputation of someone else who has earned much respect is implicated here, too.
I hope @gdave comes back.
I’m not seeing any issue to “clear up” from a Board perspective, other than to satisfy recreational curiosity.
A slight loss of objectivity when you care deeply about something is hardly a character flaw or something to be made fun of - it’s part of being human. Any desire I have to make fun of people will continue to be directed solely toward you, @BigT.
Then why did you attack me in this thread, completely ignoring my point?