Why is depression so prevalent in contemporary society?

In My Humble Opinion
141

I want to add…

I think that if you took a snapshot of a chronically depressed person’s brain, and compared it to a circumstantially depressed person’s brain, they would look a lot alike. There may be some permanent scarring or brain damage in the chronically depressed person’s brain, but chemically I think the same basic thing is happening. When people are in crappy circumstances, they tend to have a lot of unhelpful thoughts and behaviors, thus depression. I think the core difference is that the chronically depressed person has something else going on, chemically or physically, that recreates that same chemical state regardless of what they are thinking/doing. It might be caused by the brain damage or any number of things. I don’t know if that makes sense.

142

Bump, I was primarily asking the question in reference to the clinically depressed. Judging by your post, I don’t think you disagree that it is linked to Biology?

143

Olives, I can attest to the “avoidance” behaviour. Back when I was pretty depressed, I never faced my problems head on. I put up with people and situations that were doing me harm, even when in the back of my mind I knew I didn’t have too. The longer this went on, the worse I got. It’s a pretty vicious cycle.

It seems like ever since I removed myself from those people though, that I’ve felt a lot better. I’m sure immaturity played a part as well, but like you said it’s very complicated. I’m still not “all-better” either. I agree, there is not always a simple cure.

That made me realize. Diabetes is one hell of an analogy. :slight_smile:

144

No, you are not. You are peddling snake oil and getting shot down by people who know better. Your idea of positive thinking resulting in a cure is that same kind of naive claptrap used to lure people into wasting money on self-help woo like “The Secret.” Your ideas are not the result of informed medical study. The very definition of clinical depression is that no amount of hope or optimism cures the symptoms… if this worked for you then I can say with great certainty that you did NOT have clinical depression.

And the worst part is that your inconceivably ill-informed non-science runs the risk of misinforming a vulnerable and suffering population. God forbid that someone should actually read your foolishness in the misguided belief that it might arm them with genuine information, and then suffer the obvious consequences of allowing their mental disorder to run its course unchecked.

However well-intentioned you may be (and I seriously question the premise that you are not in fact trolling) the bottom line is that you are misinforming people about a real and dangerous condition. You disgust me.

145

You guys realize that thoughts are…chemicals…right? Biological ones?

There are not bright clean lines here. It’s a complex, often highly individual, subject about which relatively little is actually known.

146

No, I don’t. That was my whole point- I was diagnosed a couple of years ago with mild to moderate clinical depression at 38 years of age, and it wasn’t a biological thing at all. Haven’t felt like that before or since.

What had happened to me was that I’d accumulated 38 years worth of somewhat flawed thinking. By that I mean, that I’d frame events in my head as having been a pass/fail, and then judge that I’d failed. Or I’d always assume the worst about something that had happened, or of people’s motivations. The fact that I didn’t have effective boundaries at work is another example.

I went through about 9 months of CBT, and basically learned how to be aware of what I was thinking while I was thinking it, and to interrupt those thoughts when they fell into certain non-productive patterns. Being a technology guy, I’d liken it to being able to change the code your OS is running, while it’s running.

Long story short, I learned and practiced a set of skills that allow me to have a more realistic view of the world and how I fit into it. I also have more realistic expectations of myself and others as well. Not necessarily lower expectations, but just more realistic.

That’s not a biological thing- there weren’t any imbalances of neurotransmitters brought on by any sort of structural, genetic or environmental issue, just incorrect thoughts and perceptions that were causing my emotional state and self esteem to be very low, and from there, I fell into depression.

147

There is a difference between a more mild situational depression and the type that is medical, or clinical depression. My moms cousin is married to a woman, she has a form of depression although she also has cycles of mania, but this is still in the same category of illness as depression is (mood, or affective disorders)

She has been severely depressed since she was in her early twenties.

It took a while to get the right combination of medications to manage (not cure) her illness,
This is biologically based, its quite different than someone in their late thirties going thru a more mild depression where cbt is enough to pull them out of it.
For true medical or clinical depressive illness, the brain usually needs medication, to help balance out the brain chemistry, the fact that medications sometimes don’t always quickly work does not mean its not biological, it means that its hard to find the right kind, the right amount, the right combination. Therapy helps too, but mere positive thinking or cbt is not enough for a profoundly or clinically depressed person, they can’t just think good thoughts and pull out of it

148

So… your depression was analogous to the guy who is massively overweight and diagnosed with diabetes who does the hard work of losing the weight, changing his diet, and exercising to the point the disease goes into remission. It’s real diabetes. It also doesn’t mean someone else’s insulin-dependent auto-immune caused diabetes isn’t also real diabetes.

It’s entirely possible that your depression was entirely real and authentic even if it “only” required talk therapy and change of habit and biological depression that isn’t cured by talk therapy and finds medication useful is also entirely real. There are plenty of other disease that aren’t singular entities with just one cause but actually more than one disease all with similar manifestations, each of which require different treatments. That also means that what worked for you is not the cure (or maintenance therapy) for everyone else with similar problems.

149

To address the original question, one theory I’ve heard bandied about is that depression is linked to the parasite toxoplasma, which inhabits the brains of roughly 1/3 of people on the planet.

[QUOTE=Scientific American]
The results were clear. Women with Toxoplasma infections were 54% more likely to attempt suicide – and twice as likely to succeed. In particular, these women were more likely to attempt violent suicides (using a knife or gun, for example, instead of overdosing on pills). But even more disturbing: suicide attempt risk was positively correlated with the level of infection. Those with the highest levels of antibodies were 91% more likely to attempt suicide than uninfected women. The connection between parasite and suicide held even for women who had no history of mental illness: among them, infected women were 56% more likely to commit self-directed violence.
[/QUOTE]

Of course, I’m not sure if we, as a people, have a higher rate of toxoplasma infection than we did in the past, but there is a clear link here.

150

I never said my depression wasn’t real! The point I was trying to get across is that there’s not just one type or cause for depression. Some people may have depression that’s not biological in nature. Others’ depression may be entirely biological in nature, and there are more than likely people somewhere in the middle, with a mix of screwy thought patterns and biological issues as well.

Tollhouse was implying that “real”, “medical” or “clinical” depression is only the biological kind, and I was saying that no, it’s not.

From what I can tell, having been diagnosed as having a mild to moderate case, and having an extremely close friend diagnosed with severe clinical depression that responded very well to SSRIs like Prozac, the hard part for mental health providers is telling the difference- the symptoms are the same for both, but the responses to treatment may be different.

151

:slight_smile: I know you didn’t - my comments were addressed to those in extreme camps, either all biological or all situational or all stinkin’ thinkin’ or whatever.

And, again, what you say about similar symptoms having different causes (or a mix of them) is so true. Again, which is why doctors dispensing drugs with only a 15 minute “consultation” or whatever is just… ludicrous.

152

I agree with this also. I would like all of these discussions a lot better if “depressed” and “schizophrenic” and “bipolar” were treated as adjectives describing HOW a person is. We get that way through some combination of biology, internal mental-emotional processes, external environmental conditions and events, and ancillary things like nutrition and sunlight and whatever. But however we get that way, it’s the condition that it is.

I do believe that the entire notion of a biological predisposition is NOT false. Some of us are simply more susceptible to it. And maybe psych medications help. (For other people, maybe something else helps. It’s not a one size fits all kind of phenomenon).

153

With the exception of DiFool, I agree with pretty much everyone here telling their stories.

bump, I think you have an excellent point. From my point of view, depression is a symptom (or actually, a syndrome). There are multiple causes, and those causes can play off one another. There are some nutritional deficiencies that can cause depression, some illnesses seem to bring depression with them, and not just because of circumstances. Olives points out that there’s a correlation to parasitic infection. There are genes highly correlated with depression, and we’re only just starting to investigate the epigenetics of different illnesses. I think there’s an autoimmune source for some versions.

I’m really wondering if there is such a thing as depression with only one cause. Some situational depressions appear to fit the bill, but I wouldn’t take it for granted. And, I’m very much with Broomstick, that the idea a doctor can successfully diagnose and treat a bout of depression with only a very short consultation is ludicrous indeed.

154

Another thing to consider is the chicken/egg problem when it comes to this kind of thing.

For example, someone with a biological predisposition to some form of mental illness may have it manifest itself, and also have children.

These children may or may not have this same biological predisposition, but they’ll more than likely learn the flawed thinking and coping mechanisms that come with the mental illness.

I see this with my wife’s family actually. None of my wife, her mother, and her sister are mentally ill, however, my wife’s grandfather, her uncle, and 2 of her aunts are seriously bipolar, and the uncle and one of the aunts were diagnosed as schizophrenic.

Nowadays, wife, MIL and SIL have some fairly f-ed up ways of dealing with the world that seem to stem from MIL growing up in a house full of crazy people. There’s a certain degree of attention seeking, and a certain amount of being unable to handle stress effectively past a certain point, as well as fairly extreme (IMO) anxiety about things that are security / safety related.

I’m convinced this is due to the MIL’s upbringing, and that both of her daughters learned it from her, because they both act the same way, with it being less severe in my wife vs. SIL, probably in no small part due to my wife going to therapy regularly.

155

Bump, the symptoms for mild depression and severe depression are the same? You lost me in that one…symptoms of severe depression are (by a qualified physician) able to be differentiated…

156

We are a youth oriented society. People are living longer and have more old people than ever. Well-known that depression is more prevalent in the elderly. So when there’s a lack of respect to elderly the number of depressed elders grows.

157

We can’t seem to make up our minds when it comes to psychiatric meds. When it comes to people who act and think crazy, we want to pump them up with drugs and castigate them for not being compliant. We even force some of these folks to take meds against their will, despite the horrible side effects.

But when it comes to people who act and think depressed, we want to sell them a bunch of self-help books and Dr. Phil folkisms, with a big ole dollop of religiosity and new-age bullshit on top. And if these folks decide to try meds? Well, we say they’re being suckered by Big Pharma and they’re just looking for an easy way out of their problems.

(I’m using “we” because “ya’ll” sounds so accusatory and argumentative, dontchyallthink? :))

I don’t think all mental illnesses and disorders are the same. But I also think that if we treat meds as the great savior for one set of psychiatric conditions, we need to lighten up on all the judgmental attitudes when it comes to the other. The split-thinking is crazy-making all in itself.

Anyone who thinks they are depressed should find a great counselor to work with–preferably someone who is not a psychiatrist (unless they provide psychotherapy). This way, you can find out what kind of depression you have (reactive, endogenous, dysthymia, major, etc.) and what lifestyle and cognitive changes you can make to improve the situation. And if you determine that things aren’t progressing quickly enough, you can always consult with a psychiatrist and try something. All the judgment and second-guessing and backseat-diagnosing from the peanut gallery? Totally unnecessary to the process. Let the professionals decide if your depression is “real” and “biological” or whatever, and just tune out everything else as you take care of yourself.

158

My thoughts on the question after reading this thread (A combination of your thoughts and mine):

  • Depression is the natural emotive state of humans. Some people seem to have been convinced that everyone is happy but themselves, which is complete nonsense.

  • Post-modernism bombards us with so much information and social saturation that no one can pinpoint real truth. Our identities change so rapidly that most of us have no fucking clue who we really are, and what we want out of life. Modern society is too vacuous.

  • People with exceedingly high expectations of life coming face to face with reality.

  • Most depressed people seem to ignore and or actively deny reality. But, sometimes, prevalence of depression has a positive correlation with the awareness of “bad things”.

  • Some people have solved all their own real problems. And those people were just as depressed before, but they didn’t have time to think about it (because they were working on solutions) and nobody cared to listen to them if they complained about it.

  • Irresponsible production of offspring. Speaking as someone with major depression, people with serious mental illnesses should not be reproducing, but they often do because they cling to the hope that a wife/children/etc. will finally bring them the happiness they’re looking for. These diseases have a genetic basis as well as an environmental one, and people are only too willing to provide the necessary predisposing genes.

  • Diet quality is decreasing as a result of subpar processing methods (hormones in meat, etc.) and the increase in high-convenience food suppliers, e.g. fast food. Why expend the finances and effortt to eat healthy when you can pick up a grease-sodden, made-to-order pizza on the way home?

  • The need for exercise is decreasing as we continue to make technological advances that promote convenience and minimize physical effort. A healthy mind does not necessarily require a healthy body, but physical well-being contributes immensely to mental well-being.

  • High availability of easily-abused substances that can seriously fuck up not only the abuser but the lives of those around them.

  • The most basic form of expending energy for men (warfare) has been almost entirely eliminated. Even lower level forms of violence have been curbed heavily.

  • Humans are innately tribal and some people in some societies are desperately in need of a meaningful tribe.

  • When I was in the US, I saw that US colleges were full of people with huge self esteem - levels that were too high. When expectations don’t meet reality we suffer from problems.

  • Women that are looking to marry into money can very well find someone that will marry them and has money. Men want a busty wife and can very likely find a busty wife. And then they wake up the next day, and what does any of that mean? So they become depressed.

I remember watching a documentary a while ago about Bhutan. Bhutan was the last country to receive Television and internet, they’re a buddhist country. Before the television they hardly had any violence or social problems. After the television, their views of each other changed. They started to become more materialistic and their ideas of what an attractive woman is changed. Before the television they found a hard working woman attractive, after they were focused on looks like the western world due to the bombardment of advertisement. Also violent crimes and other social problems which were almost unknown to them started to happen more frequently. One of the first things the children started to do after getting television was imitating WWE wrestlers and hitting each other in play where before they never did this and played peacefully.

159

Once again, depression isn’t just “not being happy”. Spending most of the day lying in bed, just staring at the wall, not caring if you live or die is the “natural state of things”?