Right now a lot of people are attacking trump because of his tax return but it seems like a lot of crap to me. Nobody is saying that he broke the law or even did anything that unusual. I suspect you wouldn’t find a single person who voluntarily pays significantly more on their taxes than they are required to, not counting those donate a dollar for the election fund. Trump didn’t write the tax code so it seems odd to attack him for following it. It just seems like a convenient way to attack people who make money by methods other than wages.
Because he calls people who are also legally paying no taxes “freeloaders” no matter what their circumstances are.
Social Security? Pay taxes.
Disability? Pay taxes.
Retired? Pay taxes.
On assistance? Pay taxes.
Him? No pay taxes.
There’s also the question of did he actually lose over 900 million dollars or was there some off-shore / between companies reshuffling done.
Kind of a topsy turvy OP. Trump wasn’t under some requirement to file his taxes precisely as he did. There’s usually, for guys with lots of money and a variety of companies/holdings/investments to shift stuff around into a more favorable tax position. So it’s goofy to say he was “following the tax code” because he was presumably in compliance with it.
And the big deal is how us humans react to people gaming the system and getting rich off it. Remember that guy who bought the pharmaceutical company and immediately bumped a cheap life saving drug’s price by 5000%? Did you get the big deal about that? It was all legal.
People on welfare are mostly following the law, too. And yet they get attacked for that.
Not really sure why you’re ignoring the other two threads on this subject. But one of the main reasons is that Trump got a special tax break designed specifically for real estate developers. Near as I can tell, he can write off the losses on investments not necessarily made by him and transfer them to his personal taxes. That’s not something your average taxpayer can do.
If you were a CPA and didn’t recommend this tax return strategy to your client you would be in violation of your fiduciary duties.
Three reasons:
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One of Trump’s main arguments is that he’s a skilled businessman who can use his economic and negotiation acumen to improve the economy. That tax return, however, shows that he lost $900 million (in the mid-90s; well over $1 billion in real dollars) in a single year. That is not a great track record for a businessman to have.
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Trump’s running a populist campaign in which he presents himself as the champion of the little guy. Most people don’t have the ability or opportunity to declare a gigantic loss one year and then (presumably) use that to legally avoid paying taxes for the next decade or two.
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While Trump didn’t write the tax code himself, there is a perception that the tax code is written by, or at least for the benefit of, the small, elite group of people who have his level of wealth. Romney, for example, released tax returns showing that he paid about 14% on tens of millions of dollars of income. Most people make much less than him but have a much higher tax rate. (Whether or not that lower tax rate is justified or why it’s that low is not the discussion here.) It isn’t much of a defense to say that that group is following the laws that they themselves wrote, or merely taking advantage of the loopholes that they themselves put in.
For that matter, taking advantage of this tax setup does not demonstrate that Trump is smart. His accountants and lawyers may be, but I don’t think Trump handles his own finances to that extent, and I’ve seen little evidence to support his taking more than a cursory involvement in preparing his tax returns. And if he is benefitting personally from the tax code, why would he want to change it?
It looks bad.
Strange word choice. If a billionaire didn’t pay any Federal income tax for 18 years, you wouldn’t find that “unusual?”
Could you agree that it is, uh, “curious?” “Not routine?” “Something you don’t see every day?”
Let me ask you another question. What if the tax code gave a person a benefit for doing something unconscionable - say, tax credits for euthanising newborn kittens. Yeah, some kittens just need drowning, amirite? Is there ever a point at which you would personally question whether you should pursue tax benefits for questionable activities even if it is legal and in your financial interest to do so?
In other words, being smart financially is bad.
As far as I can tell, the tax code works like this:
#1 Politicians promises all sorts of shiny things to get elected
#2 To pay for the shiny things (or more accurately, appear to pay for the shiny things), the politicians write/update the tax code.
#3 To pay for all the shiny stuff, taxes have to go up.
#4 Politicians gets heat from the rich, the middle class and the poor over the tax increases
#5 To deal with the heat, the politicians write in loopholes
#6 Politicians also get pressure to use the tax code to encourage/discourage certain behavior. so credits get written into the code
#10 The poor get angry at the rich and the rich get angry at the poor and the middle class hates everyone due to the loopholes the politicians wrote into the code.
#11 The politicians use #1 and #10 to fire up their base and get elected/reelected.
Sort of a infinite loop of stupid with the side effect of running up a debt that is going to be painful to repay.
Slee
Tax laws don’t just happen. Trump was able to avoid paying taxes because politicians enacted a law that benefited billionaires.
While Trump might not have enacted those particular laws, he used them and has spoken out in favor of them.
Trump is now running for President. His views on tax laws are a valid issue. If he supports special tax breaks for billionaires, voters should know this.
It’s not of matter of whether it’s legal or illegal. It’s a matter of what kind of policy Trump will follow if elected.
No, here’s how it really happens:
#1 Politicians promises all sorts of shiny things to get elected
#2 To pay for the shiny things (or more accurately, appear to pay for the shiny things), the politicians write/update the tax code.
#3 To pay for all the shiny stuff, taxes have to go up.
#4 Politician gets heat from the middle class and the poor over the tax increases.
#5 Politician ignores it.
#6 Politician gets a phone call from a rich donor.
#7 Politician rewrites tax law so rich donor pays less taxes than anyone else.
#8 Rich donor makes sure the middle class and the poor never see his tax returns.
The system works except when the rich donor decides to cut out the middle man and become a politician himself. Then, as Romney and Trump have learned, awkward questions get asked.
I think that’s the issue here considering Trump’s stance and why it’s a big deal.
As to why it came out now, ???, ???
When a Donald Trump pays less (or no) taxes, a lot of people pay more to balance that out, maybe even you.
Righties have been yelling for years about people who have “no skin in the game”, even to the point of advocating some minimal level of taxation on even the poorest of residents. So, yeah, this smacks big time of hypocrisy.
This isn’t exactly correct. Not all tax preparers, including CPAs, act as fiduciaries to their clients. And even if they did, that duty does not necessitate a specific course of action - only that the fiduciary act in the best interest of the client.
If I might add to this, Trump is now saying that he understands the tax code better than Clinton (in fact, I think he’s saying he understands it better than anyone), and so he’s the one who can fix it and take away those loopholes. So my question is, why has he waited so long? He could have pointed out the unfairness in the tax laws any time he wanted. He could have lobbied to have them changed. Why this sudden concern? For that matter, even if he loses the election he could offer his (alleged) expertise in reforming the tax code. It’s like he’s holding it out as some quid pro quo; elect me and I’ll make things fair, elect her and I’ll take my ball and go home. If he’s elected I think he will, with great fanfare, close some loopholes for real estate developers, and in the fine print will make the presidential salary tax free.
I’d consider Trump a idiot if he didn’t use a perfectly legal tax break.
Is anybody except a politician going to raise their hand and beg to pay more income taxes? Politicians have this bizarre belief that paying extra taxes and refusing legal tax breaks makes them look noble and pious. Actually, they are just being stupid.
Any rational person with a substantial income, will hire the best tax attorneys and use every legal tax break in the books. Who wants to get screwed by the tax man when it’s not necessary? There’s nothing patriotic in paying exorbitant taxes.
Unusual meaning that other people in the same situation wouldn’t know about it/take the deduction.
The only reason it’s an issue is that people are ignorant. Its equivalent to going to a bunch of apartment dwellers and convincing them they’re getting screwed and that home owners are skirting tax laws because they deduct the interest from their mortgage payment.
People attack politicians for any reason they can come up with. That’s really all it boils down to. Now, if he’s carrying a giant loss forward year after year after year, you can make an argument either way that it’s good business (Bad: he’s not good at business, look at his loss; Good: He had a bad year and he’s making the best of it).
There’s a local MKE (D) politician who’s taken a lot of heat over the years for paying no (or close to it) taxes over the last several years. What he did was figure out what his taxes should be, then make the correct charitable contributions to negate it. As usual, people went apeshit over it*. As the OP said, he used a perfectly legal law to do it and he was contributing hundreds of thousands of dollars to worthwhile charities.
*IIRC, he was making the contributions from money he received from a trust fund or inheritance or something along those lines, so many people still basically said 'whatever, he’s a rich guy (old money, too) finding a loop hole to get out of paying taxes".
Don’t get me wrong, I understand why people are annoyed and I agree with the notion that 'if you don’t like it, don’t hate the player, hate the game (ie fight to change the law…can a little guy even do that, in reality). OTOH, ISTM, all the people that are angry with him for using donations to offset his income tax should practice what they preach. Donate all that stuff to Goodwill, gave church 10% of your invome, a car to the Boy’s Ranch, stocks took a dive in 2009…don’t write it off next time. Don’t take the deductions and credits available to you. He’s doing the same thing, just on a grander scale. If you’re going to argue this guy shouldn’t than you shouldn’t either, or at least admit what you’re really angry at…he has more money than you and can afford to do this. I’d be willing to bet the majority of the people that are angry a this guy or Trump or any other politician or upper class citizen that doesn’t pay taxes, would do exactly the same thing if they could.
Also, keep in mind, at least with the person I’m talking about, he might not be paying taxes, but he’s still paying a significant amount of money in order to not pay taxes (to the point).
One last thing, IIRC, and I may not, some of this person’s income may be coming from a non-taxable trust fund, or something a long those lines. But again, if the deductions and credits are available either take them and don’t get mad at other’s for doing the same, or get mad at other’s for doing it, but then don’t do it yourself.
ETA, and always keep in mind, politicians will always be attacked for anything and everything that people can find. If Trump owed a half a million in taxes last year and it turned out that a mistake was made and he paid 750m, people would attack him for that. Now, instead of ‘not supporting the troops’, he’s wasteful and as a R, he shouldn’t be pumping more money into the government that required by law.
I agree. Still, a billionaire that pays no taxes looks bad.