No matter how good you are at something, there’s always still things you don’t know, and can’t do.
The people who are too humble don’t think they should race because they can’t win, and don’t get off the starting blocks; but in knowledge and skill, there isn’t actually a finish line, and the people who are always trying to do that bit more, and realise there’s still so much more to do are probably going to get further than the people who think they’ve already won, regardless of how fast the ‘winners’ went.
There’s a fine line between taking a deep look at pride and humility and simply avoiding social missteps. I have seen posts of yours, rhubarbarin, where you say things along the lines of “well, I’m good-looking, and in my experience…”
To be clear: usually, this is in a thread where someone asks about what it is like to be good looking. You are speaking to the OP in a responsive way. But it can’t help but come off as prideful. I can’t think of a way a person can say “well, as a smart/hot/charming/whatever person…” and do it cleanly without coming across as sneak-bragging or outright bragging.
So - do you need to contemplate the importance of being humble? Sure - we pretty much all do. But, in this case, is it more simple: when folks are looking for a person to volunteer themselves as smart/pretty/whatever, just don’t. You may be trying to help, but it sets you up to look bad (anyone, not just you).
Here’s a very, very basic argument about why you should be humble. I mean this in a general way. You ever meet anybody at a party, or at work, or wherever that will “one up” your story? The type of guy that if you say… I don’t know… “I took a judo class the other day” and he says “I’m a black belt!”… or “I went rock climbing the other day” and you get, “Well, I climbed a mountain!”
Yeah, you’ve met him. We all have. Hell, I think we have all been that guy on occasion. Just don’t be that guy. That guy’s an asshole. Nobody likes that guy. Humility keeps you from being “that guy”.
But she is very good looking, and in the pics she posted in the gallery, she isn’t wearing a trace of makeup and has very striking features that need no enhancement. I see no reason why she shouldn’t volunteer her experience in threads about looks.
Besides that, the board is peppered with complaints that Hollywood and fans have no idea who is attractive; look for the recent arguments against Gynneth Paltrow. As a member of this board, rhubarbian must know that if she cops to being attractive, many will disagree because it’s the most subjective topic. She knows not everyone will find her appealing, but there’s nothing immodest about answering queries about her experience with being perceived as pretty. It’s no different than posters who share experience about being tall, in shape, experts in a field, etc. It’s one aspect of her existence that is occasionally worth owning when the topic arises.
Having said that, I’m not sure what this thread is about. rhubarbian, what specific complaints have you had about being less than humble? If you admit the same mediocre success as you have in this thread, who or what prompted this discussion? Is it related to your appearance?
I agree that merely speaking objectively about oneself in the proper context should not be condemned as arrogance. I live in a country that holds humility in the highest regard, to the point where no one accepts a compliment with a “thank you.” Rather, they reply with something like “Oh, that’s not true” or “Oh, please don’t say such things.” Drives me nuts. When I was in high school it was considered arrogant to be honest about your grades. “What did you get on your math test?” “Oh, I did terribly” (when actually they got an A).
To me, true arrogance is either when you have an inflated sense of yourself and/or your skills, or when you try to brag about your skills in an inappropriate context (for example, the “one-up-manship” mentioned above).
IMHO, volunteering that you are good looking, extra smart, rich, etc. is VERY different.
I totally agree - in a perfect world, we all wish we could use a place like the SDMB to ask questions like “what’s it like to be rich?” or “what’s it like to be a guy/gal magnet?” but I have yet to see one of those threads go well when some SDMB’ers offer themselves up and their experiences. Some muddle along for a while before going off the rails; others start off bad and get worse.
Again - IF this is the type of issue relevant to the OP, this isn’t about being humble, it is about the social rules associated with volunteering yourself as “top shelf” along some dimension. Even if they are asking, and even if it is objectively reasonable to claim that status - you are asking for trouble and should not be surprised if you get heckled on it.
I’m not happy about that - it would be great to get unfiltered inputs on some of those topics and folks who have those qualities no doubt have insights to share - but it shouldn’t be surprising if it ruffles feathers or leads to accusations of bragging at some level or another.
But this is a relatively anonymous message board; not a perfect world. If someone starts a thread with “I’m not handsome, do I have a chance with a pretty girl” or “Do attractive people have an easier life/easier time finding love/treated better by strangers” this is the ideal environment to provide an honest answer.
From rhubarbian’s posts in this thread, sounds like the condition of being attractive doesn’t impart automatic success, ambition, or smooth social interaction. Readers who lament average looks or go to great extremes to improve their appearance can learn from this thread; success in life is apparently not dependent on good looks. It’s valuable information even if the admission of being good-looking is off-putting to some. Genetic advantages, like genetic defects, are just another fact of life and only one facet of a complex human being.
It depends on the situation and the person, of course, but what came to mind is that the person who is, essentially, bragging is making the assumption that the other person is actually interested in hearing about the bragging. Sometimes this is a warranted assumption. Other times it is not.
I have certain friends who blather on and on about themselves and their accomplishments - in fact, they often lie to aggrandize the accomplishment - the reality is that I’ll listen to a certain extent because I’m polite, but I really don’t care about these accomplishments because I have no interest in sifting the wheat from the chaff of their manure laden stories. I have, in some cases, shut them down as they seemed incapable of doing so themselves.
Again, it depends on the context. If someone comes wading into a conversation bragging about something, then it’s an intrusion on the conversation. If people suspect that a person is only commenting on a given topic to EVENTUALLY brag about themselves, then their entry into the conversation is merely a way to narcissistic brag about themselves, which is very off putting.
This is true and as I’ve said, it all depends on the context and the individual and, most importantly, the perception of that individual. I mentioned one of my friends earlier and her propensity to lie about her accomplishments. This subsequently colors any achievement she may wish to brag about - unfairly so in some cases.
I cannot really comment here as I’m unaware of what you are talking about here and I’m not familiar with your 'net behavior.
I agree that attractiveness is somewhat subjective.
I think rhubarbarin might be posting as a reaction to an exchange in the weight loss thread, in which a few posters accused her of sneak bragging when she commented on how some people, like herself, can look thin and fit without even trying. It might be true, but it seemed like a really tone deaf comment in that particular thread. I don’t see why it would be difficult to understand the reason people found the comment offensive.
I haven’t seen that thread - but yeah, that is exactly what I am speaking to. Offering up oneself as richer/thinner/smarter in those situations can come across as tone-deaf. The point that is relevant to this thread: that tone-deafness may or may NOT be intentional, but you are giving other posters fodder to draw their own conclusions and they may choose to interpret your post as arrogant. Therefore, avoid putting yourself in that position - QED.
Troppus - yep, you’d think on an anonymous message board it would be okay. In my decade-plus of time on the SDMB, there are definitely topics where that anon-ideal works out - folks asking about personal hygiene, about love issues, etc. But if the topic shifts to richer/hotter/smarter, even on an anonymous board, I haven’t seen evidence that the discussions go well.
For every genuine attempt to speak in an anonymously-objective way, there are a larger number of attempts that come across as tone-deaf - unintentionally or not - that leave folks pre-disposed to assume arrogant intent…
An observation. I’ve seen real experts in their field be dead assed wrong about something. Or do some WTF were they thinking? Or thats just stupid. And little ole me being the one to know it or seeing it. Now mind you it wasn’t often, but it did occur Like others have noted, thats a good reason to be humble to avoid disasters.
The higher your status is, the more humble you need to be, in order to avoid pissing people off. Differing status creates tension in interpersonal interaction and one of the key ways to dispel that tension is for the person of higher status to behave as if he or she is of lower status.
That’s basically if you are interested in smooth social interaction. Given that we live in a society in which we have to depend on human interaction, it’s generally a good idea not to piss people off.
I am very good at what I do. In just a few years I’ve earned the respect of dozens of more experienced & better educated, and substantially powerful people in my legal community. I’m not a lawyer, I’m just some guy with a 25 year old degree in literature, good analytical skills, and sometimes crippling mental health issues. I got to where I am because at some point I realized I need allies who will overlook some of my qwerks and be willing to appreciate the strengths I bring to my profession. Humility is how I manage my symptoms (do NOT feed the narcissist and the mania will subside), and it is also how I manage my connections with other people. When I orchestrate a major success, I deflect praise to everyone around me partly because it warms people up to me, and also because I honestly would not have been able to do it by myself. I know I’m seen as overly modest, and I don’t care: I am liked, trusted, and respected as a result. That warmth goes both ways because I also get recognition when someone else lays part for the blame of their success on me.
Also, as mentioned above, even Muhammed Ali got his ass kicked a few times despite his bravado. Part of recovering from a failure is to accept the fact you made an error, examine the error, and strive to not repeat it. If you think you’re perfect, it’s harder to do that.
Yeah, I think looks is a whole other ball of wax. One can learn to be a better boxer by showing some humility once in a while, but there is nothing to gain by pretending to be less beautiful than you think you are. And yes, beauty is subjective, way more than a lot of people like to admit, but if a person thinks they are beautiful, then they are beautiful to their own selves and shouldn’t have to downplay it on a message board, especially when the thread is asking for opinions from ‘beautiful people’. I didn’t read the weight loss thread, so I don’t know if she came off as tone deaf in that thread, but I do know that SOME people don’t have to try hard to stay fit, and it seems that people who DO have to try hard to stay fit should expect those people to give their opinions in a thread about weight loss. They shouldn’t have to swallow those opinions just because someone might be put off. It would be different if she went in that thread to berate dieters who struggle.
I checked out her pics in the gallery and she not only looks symmetrical, young, great skin and hair and teeth…but she also matches some of the classic notions of beauty that has been valued in this society…thin, blond, delicate features. I think it would border on annoying false modesty for her to play her beauty down in threads where her opinion as a beautiful woman could actually be enlightening for those of us who have never had the same perspective as she has.
Nzinga - cool. Would you agree that, separate from your perspective, that the…hmm…the *default social rule *(??) is that one shouldn’t comment on their own looks, riches, smarts?
My point is: simply because that is the default rule, you will see its effect, even on anonymous message boards. That’s why message boards are their own kind of blurry - some folks want to anonymously discuss topics in a straightforward way; other folks can’t/won’t/don’t expect to let go of the rules they observe IRL.
This happens in all areas - heck, I hang out on guitar message boards. Folks ask about a vintage guitar - I happen to have owned a few, so I comment. Man - there was a learning curve to getting the wording right. If my tone could be interpreted as braggy, that was called out. But walking that line can be figured out. If that is “playing the game” - so be it. I think of it differently and see how it helps out my interests.
