Great, so you call some 38 year old lady Oriental and now she has two reasons to be p.o.'d at you.
The problem, as I already explained, is that not all Asians DO want to be called Asians. I always make an effort to call people what they want to be called. I habitually use the word Asian rather than Oriental anyway, but if I spent more time with my stepmother and her friends and family, I might find myself using Oriental more, since that’s how they describe themselves. If I did, and then got a funny look or an exasperated sigh from you (or much worse, a white person) I’d be quite offended.
That’s the problem with the whole idea of sensativity over terms–no one can agree over what to be offended by. Negro, as I understand it, rather naturally fell out of favor relative to black, which had a long history of use as a self-appelation by blacks. African-American was a well-intentioned and understandable attempt to make the term for blacks more parallel to other ethnonyms like Italian-American or Irish-American, but it was only partially successful because those other hyphenated terms were less widespread outside of the northeast and midwest, because not all blacks prefered African-American, and because not all blacks are African-American, being instead African-Canadian, African-Carribean, African-British, or simply African.
Native American as an alternativer to (American) Indian is, as I understand, virtually unused by Indians themselves, and is largely a white construction.
Some Native Alaskans prefer the name of their larger ethnic group to be Inuit and consider Eskimo to be derogetory. Members of the same ethnic group living in Canada prefer Eskimo and consider Inuit to be culturally insensative as the larger group name.
Any time I know (or have reason to suspect) that a given individual or group prefers a certain name, I’ll use it. But anyone who expects me to be a mind-reader and correctly guess which of several widely used terms is that person’s favorite is being overly sensative and is lucky to be humored at all.
I politely correct people who use a diminutive form of my first name instead of my given name. But if I even hinted that I was offended by the mistake, I’d be a first-class asshole and rightly be treated with contempt.
I’ve spent the last two years in an African village. Of course I knew ahead of time that I’d face all kinds of stereotypes and would always stand out.
Still, I can’t tell you how happy it made me on the rare occasions when I heard my name in a conversation, instead of “nassarra” (white lady). I can’t tell you how much it meant to me when someone introduced me as their friend or their teacher instead of their white friend or white teacher.
And yeah, it made a difference what term people called me. “American” or “Westerner” was best because it actually did give some clue as to what kind of person I was beyond my skin color. “Nassarra” was pretty neutral. I don’t think it was a flattering term, but most the people who said it meant it honestly. “La Blanche” was always said kind of hatefully. People usually seemed to narrow their eyes and spit it out as they said it. “Chinois” was just really, really annoying (FWIW I’m blond haired and blue eyed- why’d everyone think I was Chinese). I can’t tell you why it’s so annoying to be called the wrong race, but it was annoying enough that other Americans would avoid my town so they didn’t get “Chinois”'d all day.
Anyway, the point is that the effects of stereotyping/generalizing are small things that add up, and it’s hard to understand until you’ve been there. So just call people what they want to be called and trust that they know how they feel about certain subjects.
If you acted offended the first time this happened then yeah, that would seem like an overreaction. But if you’d already said you preferred your given name and people tried to argue with you about it, saying things like “Well, I know another guy named William and he doesn’t mind being called Billy”, “We called everyone named William ‘Billy’ 20 years ago and no one complained”, “There are too many other people named William, Billy is more specific”, etc., then you’d be quite justified in being annoyed. And you would hardly be the jerk in that situation.
Yeah, I agree. I do make a conscious effort to call people what they want to be called, and the people who complain about changing terminology annoy me even more than the (much smaller) number who want people to be mind readers and get it right the first time. Actually, no, that’s not true. The people who complain about changing terminology offend me because I always suspect that racism is the reason behind it. But the ones who expect everyone to know what their preference is or make blanket statements about the “correct” term annoy me no end. Vicarious offense is a real pet peeve for me. Most of the time, it seems like the people who say “You shouldn’t use Asian” or “You should say Native American” are themselves white, and I can’t stand that sort of thing. Even when it is a person of that race, they’re making assumptions about what other people of that race want to be called, and it really bugs me.* “I prefer to be called _______” doesn’t bother me at all and is quite reasonable most of the time.
*Not that anyone here is necessarily like that, but the subject does get to me.
You have the geography (generally) reversed. Eskimo is less frequently an insult in Alaska and more frequently an insult in Canada.
Really? Damn. I was sure I had it right, but Wikipedia agrees with you. I hope no one was offended!
That’s pretty funny, in a sort of Monty Python, WTF sort of way. I suppose the non-Africans they interact with most often are Chinese so foreign = Chinese.
In my case, I would be Chiny (Cha-ee-nee) in Trinidad, Chino in Guatemala (and most of Latin America) and Japones in Brazil. But I’m Korean.:dubious: But I know they didn’t mean any malice, so it wasn’t a huge deal.
That reminds me of an other story. In the States (Central PA), I was walking home late one night and as I was crossing an empty street I see a car whiz by and someone yells out “SPIC!!” from the car. I looked around and saw that there was no one else around. Got a kick out of that.
Obviously it was a mick who didn’t know a spade or a spic from a chink.
…
If you’re going to attempt to humor with racial or ethnic remarks, at least try to make them funny.
It was funny at 4:35AM.
You know what I’d say to her? Grow up! You have two years to go!
For anyone who still cares, the name Sambo comes from the Sanskrit Śambhu (Shambu), and in Tamil the ‘Sh’ often becomes ‘S,’ with a deepening of the final vowel from ‘u’ to ‘o.’ There’s your Madras (Chennai) link. And for the posters who don’t seem to understand why this is racist, go keep rewriting the history you pretend not to benefit from: call an older black man “George” in Chicago and see what happens. After all, it’s not your fault, it’s just a name. Sarcasm fully intended. And when you remove head from ass, go learn something about the history of colonialism and race.
The OP (along with a bunch of other posters in this small 2 page thread) was banned and I doubt he’s still following this zombie thread. This one should be left to die or be locked and buried under a chicken coup.
Serious question (serious ignorance.) What is the connotation of that name in that place? This is something I have never heard of.
Me either, and I live in Chicago.
Why in the world would I call an African American elder “George” if that wasn’t the name he went by?
It comes from Pullman train car porters. Excerpt from this article (hope it’s not too long to be considered fair use):
I feel compelled to add, I hate any form of political correctness, and consider anything that neither breaks your leg nor picks your pocket perfectly acceptable. People are too easily offended these days, and the PC police feed that particular form of dysfunction. But, this is the history of the term.
Tim R. Mortiss: thank you!
There was a Los Angeles City Councilman who got in trouble when he referred to a black man as “Curly.” It came out that he called everyone “Curly.” It was just a (bad!) habit he had. He never thought of it as racially related in any way. But one person did, there was trouble, and the Councilman stopped that habit right away.
(By the way – with a snapping of fingers and clicking of heels in mid-air – I’m a huge Jack Vance fan.)
The story’s not racist. As a dismissive way of referring to someone, “Sambo” can in context, be offensive, just like “ranga,” “coolie,” “pussy,” “Dr. Ladypants,” “White Lightning,” or “African-American.”
Context and intent matter. Calling Obama “Sambo” implies a certain dismissiveness and/or racism, as if his “blackness” is one’s overriding impression of him. Or she may just be trying to be mean to him, because Pubs hate Dems. Many Dems do the same thing to Pubs.
I find it a pretty probable marker of racist attitudes, a bit like people who call Indian-Americans “Talibans.” It’s even more eyerolling to me, inasmuch as Obama is not “black” in the sense Sambo in the story is implied to be “black.” But it may just be her nickname for him.