Why is such a potentially powerful force being overlooked?

Great Debates
1

American families earning median incomes… How many of the are there?

It seems to me that if everyone could put their petty disputes aside (easier said than done, I have trouble recognizing creationists as human beings) we would have quite a bit of collective barganing power. We would also have a serious budget. It’s too bad these trivial conflicts set us so deeply apart.

Im tired of watching these spineless jellyfish flop around in the streets of NY with signage hoping for revolution. Meanwhile the Execs stare down from their penthouses LAUGHING!

Even a fraction of American families alligning would realize significant purchasing power. Just pick your faction, The LGBT, Christians, Blacks, Pro-lifers, Greenies who ever! We are all facing the same problems in the big picture…RIGHT???

Whether your black, Gay, Athiest, whether you make 50k or 200k, whether your kids are in prep school or public, We still have the same dillema??? Unstable economy, real wage decline, diminished standard of living, no jobs!.. Right?? Or am I delusional??

Im sick and tired of people complaining! People make a living out of complaining! Its getting hard to distinguish between the authentic complaints from oppressed citizens and the tools who have a new found ideology to cater to. WTF is really going on?? I cant possibly be the only one to say this. Seems like a natural first thought to me…

Activists despise this so called corpratocracy, this corporate/fed tag team. They spew these ideals to the media and we watch it on netflix and youtube. The endless documentaries and conspiracies. The market is flooded with this stuff. People have the audacity to complain about big business buying legislation… Ive got news for you, If we weren’t so fuckin busy worrying about gun control, or immigration policy or even foreign policy for that matter. WE COULD BUY LEGISLATION TOO! Yes we could, we the 99% have a nearly unlimited budget and inexhaustable manpower. If we could get our heads out of our ass and think clearly. But we would rather focus on insignificant issues. Issues that in the long run are detrimental to us as a whole, meanwhile they exist only to separate us.

The injustices that are happening here such as environmental problems from big industry or educational neglegence are much, much worse in other countries. When they happen in Guatemala or Lebanon they are much more sinister. As soon as the powers that be extend there bubble of wealth and greed beyond the boundries of the superpowers the their respect for human life plummets. I think the answer must start here. Not to be arrogant, but we are the center of the universe.

2

What, exactly, do you propose they do? Let’s say you could get a large percentage of these people together, and acting in unison…what would you have them do? Force companies to pay higher wages with more benefits? How would you then keep those companies in business against foreign companies or US companies who would then further move their operations overseas? Would you put tariffs on goods and services of anything coming in from overseas? That would not only cause reciprocation but it would also drive up the prices for goods and services in the US…which would hurt everyone.

3

*Graham Chapman: I think all right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired.

All: Yes, yes…

Graham Chapman: I’m certainly not! And I’m sick and tired of being told that I am.

Not Sure?: Mrs. Havoc-Jones.

Mrs. Havoc-Jones: Well, I meet a lot of people and I’m convinced that the vast majority of wrongthinking people are right.

Not Sure?: There seems like a consensus there. Could we have the next question, please?

Woman: I would like to ask the team what changes they would make if they were Hitler?

Graham Chapman: Well, speaking personally, I would annex the Sudetenland.

Not Sure?: Norman?

Norman: I think I’d pay some Dutchmen to set fire to Lord Snowdon.*

Stranger

4

Fewer all the time. America is rapidly becoming a society with a a very large underclass, a tiny ultra-rich upper class, and very little in between.

No; the rich have most of the money in the country. Even if everyone else thought and acted as one, the rich - even a minority of them - could outbid the rest of us.

America is a society run by the rich for the benefit of the rich, and the rest of us are just cattle and vermin in their eyes. That’s what this country was founded on, that’s how it’s always been, and I expect that’s how it always will be until everything collapses one way or another.

5

There probably aren’t that many families making the median income. Did you mean “middle income”? Also. people making $200k aren’t seeing their wages decline, in general.

What legislation, specifically, do you want everyone to get behind?

6

What keeps us from doing anything, any time? Misinformation, willful ignorance & preconceived notions that cannot be altered by new facts, apathy, and being skillfully set against each other. Add in fundamental differences in which we will not budge, such as your issue with creationists, and any creationists who don’t wish to give an inch, and you’ve got unproductive chaos that never approaches critical mass.

7

If I could make a living out of complaining, I’d be very wealthy by now. As would almost all Americans.

8

Maybe if you want change you want people to pull together for change you should stop slagging the people who are on the same side as you. Do you know why people started talking about the 99% vs. the 1%? Because Occupy “flopped around in the streets” to make it something worth talking about.

9

That’s right H.King. The OWS movement gave the machine something to talk about…Talk about. That’s exactly what we need right? Another topic for authors, fox news and hollywood to exploit while the federal government does there best to deny it’s relevancy. Then finally, after the damage is done, the fed announces some disingenuous policy that should “work toward” fixing it. Sure. As if the decline in living standards or political dysfunction is not enough.

I understand rudimentary differences can be impossible to overcome. I know the misinformation “age” is flooding the streets and neighborhoods but is there not a time when repression unites people? It’s happened many times before. Isn’t this the time?? I can’t, for the life of me identify with this strategy of peacful protest.

If the white house decideds that we (the USA) needs something from someone/somewhere do we peacfully protest? We organize and structure a plan to resolve the issue (aka take by force). What about the union movements? Or are we so disconnected from the propaganda administered to us?

How are people with incomes at or above 200k not in decline? How is anyone but the wealthy not in a state of financial decline given the monatary issues we face? Currency devaluation, The ever expanding tax agenda…

I want em’ to get behind the 8-Ball John. Get behind the god-damn 8-ball and see the whole table, see what move we should really make.

Trihs, I am aware of the income distribution in this country, I know the wealthy have the majority of it. But I venture to propose that regardless, the “99%” would be a far more powerful entity with some structure, organization but most importantly, leadership. Jesse Ventura and Alex Jones are not leaders. America is run and owned by the rich…for the rich. Agreed, but that being said, America was and still is a fantastic place to be, The trickle down effect was much more robust. The struggles of everyday working people were tenuous in comparison to today. What makes this country great is being erroded by pencil neck bureaucrats! Ugh!!

At work right now, not a good day! Sorry if Im ranting…

Pete

10

Because “American families earning median incomes” are not all of one mind politically; they’re all over the place; they will never form a reliable voting-bloc for any party, candidate or movement.

Look, if you want to know how the American people break down politically, and how that correlates to income and other factors, study this very closely.

11

So you’re tired of the complaining and the talking and you want action instead.

And the action you desire is…that people get together and decide on a course of action.

You do realize that you’re one of the talkers and complainers, right? You’re talking on the internet and complaining. That’s what organizing is. It’s talking with people and learning from them and informing them and persuading them. Unity of action requires unity of purpose. Who are you willing to take orders from? Who is willing to take orders from you? If you aren’t willing to take orders from anyone and no one is willing to take orders from you, and you don’t know anyway what orders to obey or what orders to give, then you can continue to sit on the sidelines and complain.

12

People are nowhere near this activist or unified. I don’t see it happening. You have the ideological bases, but they are at opposite ends. The progressive movement/OWS may be 15% of the electorate, but the tea party and social conservatives are another 15%. On top of that the other 70% genuinely doesn’t care that much or pay much attention. There is no unity among the 99%.

However if you get even a million middle class individuals who have the same agenda, then yeah that could build some serious momentum. Them giving $20 each a month works out to $240 million a year in lobbying money.

But 240 million is pocket change to the wealthiest in this country. Besides, you honestly can’t buy legislation or elections. If you could we’d have a president Romney right now.

Community activism and a strong labor movement are the best bets to changing our trajectory. There is a reason there is so much pressure to destroy both things from groups that are opposed to economic equality.

13

I can’t improve on the beautiful synopsis by Stranger On A Train, but something caught my eye: [my underlinings]

You seem to think “the fed” and “the white house” are a big part of the problem. I’m afraid this suggest inchoate anger to me, rather than clear thought.

14

Why would everything collapse? Many societies have survived for many centuries on exactly the principles you describe.

15

Well, be careful there, with your use of “the fed” – Pete737 clearly is talking about the federal government, not the Federal Reserve. That would be some extremely silly wingnuttery.

16

I did know “fed” meant Federal Government here. But I’m still trying to understand OP. A big problem with OWS was its lack of focus. OP seems to agree with that:

[QUOTE=Pete737]
Im tired of watching these spineless jellyfish flop around in the streets of NY with signage hoping for revolution. Meanwhile the Execs stare down from their penthouses LAUGHING!

… netflix and youtube. The endless documentaries and conspiracies.
[/QUOTE]

… But OWS’ fuzzy focus seems laserlike, compared with OP’s.

17

As opposed to entering the game and complain? One requires a tad more effort than the other. Sorry, I have a stable income, toys, assets…for now. The fam is good too. No reason for me to move out just yet. A little self-centered, yes, but real, don’t even try to heroify yourself and say otherwise. I love my fellow americans but don’t expect me to give up my existence as I know it for anything other than an immediate personal threat to me or my family/Neighborhood.. I would assume most feel the same, Brzezinski did right?

If my livelyhood, or anyone close to me is compromised I would be compelled to act… Im trying to identify with these people at OWS. Evidently their lives have been damaged by this system, necessitating these protests. Im going to use some inductive reasoning and propose this: They would not be doing what their doing if there life had not been severly interupted, less the attention whores. So maybe your statement really comes down to who has been oppressed to the point of action and who has not. If you are the former, why is such little emphasis placed on structure and representation? The word occupy is perfect, their essentially standing around crying hoping someone will do something. I don’t know who I would take orders from, but I know if someone proposed real plan/system, a real budget, some kind of formal organization other than the ideological I would listen. Seems like a big temper tantrum at this point. You can flame me all you want for talking shit from the sidelines but I don’t think that’s my position at all.

No doubt, 240 is chump change in comparison, but it’s something. I think movements position would jump up a few notches, better than nothing… Or what’s presently happening. No?

How are the Fed Gov and W.H not part of the problem? Please explain this too me.

18

Why don’t you explain why they are part of the problem and we’ll take it from there?

19

It might help if we first defined what “the problem” is.

20

Hello Pete737. You’re very angry – at what isn’t clear except that it has something to do with White House and penthouses – and you think “median income” people like yourself need to band together and protest strongly against the repression. … But not you: You’ve still got toys to play with.

If your posting was intended as a parody of Middle America’s political thinking, I’m not sure you could have done a better job.