Favor shown to a Brother? I wish. I for one am still waiting for it.
Best thing I ever got was a handshake from the US Customs guy once at the airport.
Okay, then. I guess I was mixing up the other fraternal order thingies with Masonry.
Prospective Masons swear they are not joining for the purposes of business advancement. I personally have never been given any advantage in anything because of my membership in the Masonic Fraternity. I have never knowingly given a fellow Mason any advantage in anything. I cannot swear that other Masons haven’t; we are, after all, human beings.
That’s more like it, although I suspect you still don’t realise just how profoundly stupid you’ve been. Some would consider what you did to be a form of plagiarism. But let’s be generous and just call it a very amateurish attempt at bullshitting.
The really pathetic thing is how easy it was to spot.
You are getting off topic. If you feel like insulting me, please do so in the thread I started in the pit.
APB, you’re out of line in GD.
Do not do this again.
[ /Moderator Mode ]
A question for Turks or people who know Turks: What do folks in Turkey think of Shriners and their fezzes? Are they insulted or thankful that some Americans have finally learned how to dress?
On Gnostic Christianity: I don’t want to go deeper into this, as anything I could say would hijack the thread, and I also don’t want to speak for what people who were alive 2000 years ago believed. Let’s just suffice it to say that I feel that Masonry is a “Syncretic” tradition, and that Christ to me is Syncretic to Mithras, Osiris, Prometheus etc…
Another interesting thing I have found in this thread is that we are unable to discuss an idea of “proof”. I cannot prove to you anything I have said about masonry, because it is a “secret”. You can find numerous volumes available on the market publically if you would like to check them out.
As for preferential treatment, yes I would give preferential treatment to my brothers 100% of the time, this applies to brothers masonic and otherwise. I will always practice preferential treatment to those in my immediate vicinity with whom I have a connection.
Being a mason is a common bond. Like any common bond it causes one to act with preference. It follows the same social principles as anything else. Jews are likely to act preferentially with other jews. I also act preferentially with people who are also from New Mexico. I am extremely preferential to people from the Southwestern United States living in New York, and oftentimes have a very quick bond with them, especially if I meet them in the New York underground music scene, where I live a lot of my life. So where does that leave us?
In my opinion, of course someone will be preferential to a brother mason. It’s called networking. Not being preferential to a brother mason is stupidity. Anyone who will avoid using a resource out of some sense of piety to a shallow ideology based upon some hollow notion of fairness is only shooting themselves in the foot. The point is that the temporal advancement should not be the motive for joining masonry.
Am I obligated to show preference? No, I am not. I can hire whomever I want, and I would not show preference to a brother mason over a brother who is from New Mexico living in New York and is passionate about electronic music. In fact I am going into business with a friend of mine from Texas who lived in the same county I grew up in for a while, that I met at a Psy-Trance party in SoHo. The preferential treatment is on that same level.
Are masons capable of the same conceits that everyone else is? Yes, of course. So is it possible that a mason might be upset that I hired a non-mason rather than him? Yes, of course.
Neurotik: There is no confession ritual. I have friends who are masons that I would not give out their personal business, that I learned in conversation.
It’s simply naive to think that one mason wouldn’t help out another. If someone is your brother that means that they are your friend, and we all know that having lots of friends is helpful towards advancement in life. There is no big secret as to how it works.
The theory is that anyone who is a mason was vouched for by another mason, so that there is an extra level of trust when the relationship is initiated. If you want to know the secrets of masonry, become a mason, it’s not difficult to join.
Masons are not going to tell you the “Secrets” of masonry, because there are no secrets for which we have a monopoly, and to claim those secrets as our own would only confuse the issue. If you want to talk about mythology, philosophy, metaphysics, physics, or any of those issues with a mason, he’ll probably be very interested in such a discussion and anything he will say to you will be informed by his masonic experience, but none of the constituent parts are uniquely masonic, only the experience as a whole is uniquely masonic.
Erek
Well The Shrine is a North American thing. Darn few Turks have ever heard of us. Those who have are probably amused.
God bless the fez! Ahem, sorry, I mean Great Architect thank you for designing the fez with your AutoCAD of infinite wisdom +0
People in the Freemasons make a lot of noise about how the principles of Freemasonry are so good. Well, that’s nice. Unfortunately, the entry into Freemasonry involves swearing an oath of secrecy, which accepts some disproportionate repercussions for breaking that secrecy. This sort of thing is rather seriously prohibited by the teachings of Christ, not to mention reason, human decency, etc.
If Masons are so awfully interested in building a finer world, why aren’t they behaving like responsible citizens, & advocating their principles openly?
A kind assessment would be that Masonry’s secrecy appeals to the sensibilities of a nine-year-old boy.
A cynical assessment would be that the Masons are up to some bad nastiness under the surface.
In this case, I think the RCC has a point.
Is it possible to advocate wisdom, and good princibles, and have a cool secret club? I would say ,yes, it is.
Before I joined the masons, I was still selective in what I said to people. I have never once in my life told anyone 100% of what was in my mind. So I have always kept secrets.
You have immediately presumed that your beliefs are on the side of “reason” and “human decency”, what makes you so certain?
You side with RCC but what about their secrecy? What about the history of suppression by the Catholic church of esoteric philosophy that did not fit their current political agenda.
Also, how about you examine what you have just posted, and see what in it might inspire someone to hold their tongue when around you?
At the end of the day, we do not have to justify ourselves to you. If people want to approach us and find out what we are about as people, we’ll gladly give them the same courtesy.
What about the dogma that has come from people who take the bible literally? Perhaps we don’t wish for our traditions to follow the same path? You can judge all you want, you can avoid our ranks for lack of desire to take an oath, but in the end you are making a lot of assumptions.
I’d encourage you to be careful when you take your subjective idea of badness and attempt to objectify it.
Nah, I’m right on this one:
People who swear secret oaths, & take them seriously into old age, certainly appear to be up to something.
People who are serious about changing society act like radicals. Even under threat of death, they publicly advocate for just principles, & they demand daylight; because what is taught in secret can be corrupted in secret.
The Freemasons are clearly the former. Your particular band may be benign, but what’s to stop another branch from teaching the cynicism of Sun Tzu or the subjugation of women?
Well put, FG, though I’d be interested in more of your thoughts on Sun Tzu.
“There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known”. (Jesus)
Wow. Just wow. I guess then everyone is going to hell. Biologists, chemists, astronomers, anyone who is “in the business of knowledge”. Better get the Pope on the phone too. As a religious leader and ruler of the Vatican, he supports a state of the art astronomical observatory (among other things).
As for Catholics being rabid Mason haters, I never heard a peep about Masons as a kid. It was all about those nasty Commies.
Fair enough, though if you don’t mind my saying so the response looks like it’s straight out of a can. My father has been master of a number of lodges, and I know numerous people who became Freemasons, but I myself have no time for secret societies or religions. In my experience as an outsider with rather more mason contact than most, I noticed that the (or, a) primary reason people become Freemasons is for the contacts, including business contacts, “facilitating” contacts, and so forth. There was very little doubt that business was a very important part of the masonry I’ve been exposed to. Besides business, power (or the gratifying impression of power) was also very popular. It’s all about networking, I guess, with the added bonus of being autmatically given the time of day since everyone involved is a brother.
I don’t think I have ever heard someone talking about the reasons to become a mason, beyond the contacts and opportunities that it brings.
You might ask your Dad why he didn’t join Rotary or the Lions. Loads of contscts there, too, I believe.
He’s also a Rotary member! And yes, contacts were the reason he cited for that as well, though from what I saw there is little formal encouragement of a formal social environment in the Rotary Club the way there is in most secret societies.
By the way, when I said “if you don’t mind my saying so the response looks like it’s straight out of a can”, I didn’t mean to be rude, rather I wonder if this is a standard response in any way, as I have heard very similar versions from other Freemasons.
SteveG1,when I read
It sounds like a pretty good summary to me. Now, the catholic church might be pretty liberal when I comes to science, but certain versus is the bible can be taken to mean that faith is good, and science bad. Also, while the church may or may not have been as bad as people think when it comes to suppressing scientific inquire through history, all it takes is one persecution to ruin your public perception, and you’re marked for life.
Now personally, it might be a little unfair, but I definitely see an anti knowledge thread running throughout the below statement. It is from the King James, and is not really like the original language, but the fact remains that it has been interpreted by many as it sounds in english, not as it really is
That, along with an emphasis on faith instead of person knowledge seems pretty condemning of science to me.
4:4
More quotes to the effect would probably be good, but I feel no interest in rereading the bible for the 3rd time.