No, Scott. The best we can hope for is that each side will utterly exterminate the other. 
OK, that’s a lie. The best we can hope for is that the Order of Free and Associated Masons will utterly exterminate the Holy and Apostolic Church of Rome and not vice-versa. And then the rest of us can focus our extermination efforts on the Freemasons! 
Who are, really, less of a threat.
It’s Free and Accepted Masons, not Free and Associated. In some districts it’s Ancient Free & Accepted Masons, or AF & AM. And we aren’t less of a threat, we’re no threat at all. Relax; don’t feel threatened; one of our squads, er, ah, fellowship groups will be by to soothe you. Yes, we know where you live—we know where everyone lives. We will explain, in a non-threating way, why it is always a mistake to talk of exterminating us. Don’t worry, your immediate family members will not be harmed. Be patient; we will be by to see you, when we decide the time is right.
We will not exterminate the Church of Rome; it just wouldn’t be good business. I really shouldn’t say this, but they are one of our subsidiaries; we own them outright, just as we own or control nearly all recognized religions, most governments, and all the oil in the world.
Well LouisB let the cat of the bag, now everyone knows why I joined masonry.
I’ve received business benefits from Masonry. Not in some sort of sneaky nepotistic way. One example is a friend of mine needed sound for a hearing, they needed it cheap, and he asked me if I could provide it for cheap, and I said “Sure.” so I did sound for a senate hearing on immigration with some friends of mine. There is nothing massively mysterious about it. It’s just like any other group of friends, you’ll pass your friend’s resume along if they need it, that sort of thing.
I was interested in the network when I joined, and I can’t say I didn’t have stars in my eyes when I first saw it. All that has since become less of a motivation for me. For me the more interesting aspect is that I can walk up to someone and just start up a conversation about Physics, Philosophy or Gemmatria pretty much any night of the week, and get a really deep conversation about the subject that won’t turn into some silly dick-sizing argument. (not that I don’t like a good dick sizing now and again.) I feel welcomed by my brothers, and I welcome them. I don’t feel like I lied because when I was impressed by the idea of the network and contacts it wasn’t my main motivation for joining. I was looking for a deeper sense of community, and I found it. All the benefits of having a stronger community, came along with it.
One thing that I think most masons find as the biggest benefit of the organization is the ability to walk up to a brother mason, and completely eliminate the small-talk portion of the relationship, and just get into the experience of having a relationship with someone. I personally hate small-talk, and for me that’s a wonderful feeling.
Masonry is a wonderful thing in my opinion, it’s not out to hurt anyone, and a lot of the negatives of masonry have proven in my experience to be myths. I am sorry that people are intimidated by it, and I encourage anyone who is interested to go to their local lodge and meet some guys, and demystify it for themselves, maybe even join if they feel so inclined.
Erek
Caveat: As of today, most of my business associates are still contacts that I made prior to joining masonry.
Most of those things are probably true of less controversial clubs – Elks, Moose, Kiwanis. What is it that makes the Masons different? Are you more “mystical” than the others? More intellectual? Do you have a particular doctrine or set of ethics that goes deeper than a general commitment to fellowship and public service?
I am a former member of the Elks, although I never served as an officer and I attended meetings irregularly. I found the Elks Club to be a good place to have dinner, and a better place to drink. I enjoyed hanging out there on a Sunday afternoon, playing cards and shooting pool. So my membership there was truly for the social aspects. I joined because I worked with a bunch of guys who were members and who invited me to join. Otherwise, I probably wouldn’t have joined at all. I did enjoy my membership, once I had taken the step. I’m sorry to say that I let my membership lapse; I wouldn’t mind at all re-joining but I can’t afford to pay twenty years worth of back dues.
I petitioned a lodge of Masons for membership primarily because my father and paternal grandfather were Masons; it seemed fitting that I continue the tradition. I found the ritual and the traditions of Masonry satisfied some need that I had, and I also found the experience of petitioning and being found worthy of acceptance quite gratifying. I became very interested in the history of Masonry and was, at one time, fairly knowlegeable in that area. I served as an officer in several positons, culminating in my election as Master of my home lodge. As Master of that Lodge, I joined an unbroken chain of Masters dating back to the 1870s; several of them had been men who were instrumental in the settlement and development of the Dakota territories. They had been educators, ministers, farmers, attorneys, civic leaders, etc., etc. I had a powerful desire to measure up to the standards set by those men and I hope that I did. Leading a Lodge that had been in existence for better than one hundred years was humbling and provided me with a deep sense of appreciation that I actively participated in the Lodge’s history. I’ve taken some wrong turns in my life since that time, but no matter what, I am still an honored member and Past Master of my Lodge; my photograph will hang there for years to come, barring accident, and the record of my tenure as Master will be there so long as the Lodge endures.
I don’t know that Masons, as a group, are more mystical, intellectual or ethical than others; it would be egostical and unseemly to claim such attainment of superiority. What I treasure most is the acceptance into a group of men whose stated aim is to make good men better through the exemplification of profound moral truths by means of allegorical rituals. It is gratifying, to me, to be part of an organization whose guiding principles are liberty, equality, and fraternity for all peoples, wherever dispersed; those same principles guided the French revolution and the founding of the USA; Masonic principles are, at least in part, the guiding light of our constitution. Quite a few of our Founding Fathers were Masons; several of our Presidents have been Masons, as have many of our Congressmen and Senators. Our membership includes many military leaders; artists, authors, actors, and men of all walks of life; the poorest of whom are recognized as Brothers to the most illustrious and who are entirely equal to them when in a duly convened Lodge of Masons. If that ain’t equality and fraternity, then those things don’t exist.
I wouldn’t know, I Have never been to any of their lodges. I have only experienced Masonry in such a capacity.
Erek
After reading this entire thread, I feel compelled to make a few short comments.
I’m not a Freemason; however, I am a DeMolay. The Order of DeMolay is a young man’s organization affiliated with Freemasonry. In the last chapter of which I was a member, there were Roman Catholic members, Protestant members, and Jewish members. Like Freemasonry, there is no requirement to be a member of any particular group or religion. The requirement is that one believe in a higher power. One is not asked who or what that higher power is. That is considered to be between the member and said higher power.
To assert that the mere existance of a membership oath indicates that Freemasons aren’t decent people is specious at best, ludicrous at worst. Freemasonry is a private organization and, as such, can and does have the membership requirements and entrance tests it wishes. Certain private organizations are involved in bettering their societies, just as certain private individuals are. Freemasonry just happens to be one such private organization composed of such private individuals.
It’s a mistake to say that the American and French revolutions were Masonic. Certain of the Founding Fathers were, or were believed to have been, Freemasons. That does not mean that their involvement in the Revolution was sonsored by Freemasonry. It merely means that in the view of those particular individuals so involved their participation passed their self-examination. Just as those Freemasons who fought on the other side evidently felt that fighting against the Revolution passed their self-examination.
Widely divergent organizations or belief systems can still have some common ground. That does not mean that one of those organizations is part of the other. It merely means those organizations have certain ideals in common.
To assert that the Roman Catholic church is the cause of how troubled the world is today, and then trotting out a list of persons, some of whom were not even Roman Catholic, doesn’t even come close to debate. It’s insult, and baseless insult at that. I daresay one can select any large group of people and find a number of cads who are or were members of that group at one time. That is not proof that the organization itself is responsible for the behavior of the cads.
In The Temple and the Lodge (Arcade Publishing 1991 – http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1559701269/qid=1112535670/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-4332399-0638362), Michael Baigent* asserts that one reason, perhaps the main reason, the Americans won the revolution is that the British were ambivalent about their desire to win it. A lot of prominent officers in both the British and Continental armies were Freemasons – and during lulls in the fighting, they attended lodge meetings together. And the Brits had qualms about fighting against men who were not only fellow craft, but were seeking to establish a liberal republican government that was a much better expression of Masonic principles than the British monarchy was.
*Baigent was one of the authors of Holy Blood, Holy Grail (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0440136482/ref=pd_sim_b_2/104-4332399-0638362?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance), make what you will of that, but his writing on the American Revolution seemed pretty well documented.
The Holy Blood three strike me as having a serious case of Secret Society Fever. Also, IIRC he is a journalist, not an historian. I think the above claim would have more (or at least some) weight if it didn’t come from such a suspicious source. If you have the book, can you let us know on what he bases the Freemason argument?
Exactly, though as Paul mentioned you forgot Hong Kong (and Macau for that matter), where the Party has less direct influence. As it happens, I know a particular Chinese fellow from an extremely wealthy and influential mainland background, who has lived in HK for decades. The Communist Party, of which he became a member a few years back, appears to all intents and purposes to have their own secret society, which (from what I gather) includes lounging and drinking at luxurious private spas in the company of beautiful and accommodating young women, which of course in Asia is known as business facilitation (even if no business whatsoever is discussed).
The kicker is that he and a few others of his group are also Masons, per his own claim when he first became a member, as well as the words of his wife (with whom I am good friends). I don’t know where his lodge is, though he spends most of his time on the Mainland these days. I do know that you don’t mess with the Party in such a manner; in terms of gravity this is superficially the equivalent of being a member of the Falun gong, unless of course some sort of interesting agreement or intention exists as concerns Masons. Who knows, the Party might be keeping an eye on the brotherhood, or turning a blind eye to it in special circumstances for reasons known only to them.
I don’t doubt there are members of the Communist Party who wish to make changes in the Party’s policies. I can’t think of a better way to improve the lot of the common person in China than to espouse Masonic principles—it won’t happen overnight, though. I also don’t doubt there are people in mainland China who are Masons and who have a familial tradition of Masonry. IIRC, though, we were discussing the existence of Masonic Lodges in China and I held there were none in mainland China, although I will concede there may well be illegal (in the eyes of the Communist Party) Lodges meeting in secret. If there exists any collusion between any Masonic Lodge and officals of the Communist Party, I personally would be very wary. The history of the Communist Party up to now doesn’t lead me to believe they would be tolerant of anyone teaching the very principles they suppress as a matter of policy.