Why is the "Dark Side" more powerful? (Star Wars)

Cafe Society
41

I’m not looking at theories here, people, I’m looking at the basic fact: every Dark Side user has been a monstrous fiend using their power to conquer and enslave, with a few EU exceptions which largely come down to bad writing.

I’m not saying that Lucas didn’t crib some things from Taoism. But Taoism makes a pretty big distinction between going with the flow, which somtimes involves destruction, and outright evil acts. Taoism does not say that embracing a cosmic force of evil is AOK, because it’s needed for an abstract balance. Balance is an inner peace and calm - i.e., the Light Side.

Aside from which, it would be a mistake to try and draw conclusions solely from one aspect of Lucas’ sources, and ignore all others. To pretend that Christian ideas or even Christian fiction like LotR (if not LotR specifically) weren’t heavily involved is willful blindness.

42

Fair enough but in this case “balance” in a given Jedi seems it would truly have to come from an acknowledgment of the “bad” parts of their selves as every bit as important as the “good” side. This does not mean they would think it is ok to bonk someone on the head with their lightsaber if they got pissed off but rather knowing that getting pissed off is part and parcel of being alive and accepting that side of themself rather than burying it.

In other words, it is ok to get a little cheesed off now and again and tap into what that gets you as we saw when Luke started kicking Vader’s ass in RotJ. Vader was winning till he mentioned he might turn Leia if Luke couldn’t be turned. The thought of that sent Luke off and Vader could no longer compete despite the fact Vader was the more accomplished and practiced duelist as well as being more powerful in the use of the Force. After that though Luke manages to pull back and not quite submit to the Dark Side. One can see the dangers inherent in this route as it would be all too easy to continue on the Dark path but properly done a Jedi master who manged a bit of both sides would likely be The Man.

43

I’m not a Star Wars expert, and I haven’t read anything outside of the movies, but I have seen them all several times. I agree with a lot of the info above, but I think there is something else, too.

Over the centruries, the Jedi have gotten bureaucratic and complacent. They are not trying to get better - they are increasingly interested in status quo. However, the sith are secretly working on getting stronger, year after year, to prepare for battle. So even if the dark side is not inheritantly stronger, it became stronger by the dedication and force of will of the practioners.

44

Because good is dumb.
I mean, duh.

45

No argument. But monstrous evil is a part of the universe, as much as noble heroism. I’m not arguing that it’s “okay” to be a Sith, but I am arguing that the wrongness of using the dark side descends from entirely human principles, not cosmic edicts. The dark side isn’t a corruption of the Force, because the Force naturally contains that corruption. It’s part of the all-encompassing nature of the Force that it encompass both good and evil.

It’s worth noting, purely as a parenthetical, that the only dark side Force users we see are Sith, who are part of a specific quasi-religious order dedicated to evil, that extends backwards in time in an unbroken chain for thousands and thousands of years. It could be that the destructiveness of dark Force users that we see is actually an artifact of the Sith order, and not the Dark side itself, although I tend to think that their evil really is inherent in the side of the Force they have embraced. Still, it’s worth thinking about.

I don’t think acknowledging that evil is a part of the natural order of things means one can’t stand against it. If the proper order of the universe is that forces be in opposition to each other, then it is vitally important that people make the conscious decision to stand on one side of the scale or the other, and to contest those on the opposite side as fiercely as possible. The balance is not merely personal, it is cosmic. Choosing to be an agent of life and order balances the universe against those who represent strife and chaos. And when one side gains dominence in the universe, as has happened in the prequels, then the universe itself will correct the imbalance. This isn’t a matter of personal conscience so much as natural law. The universe seeks a state of balance at all times. When things become unbalanced, it is only a matter of time before that imbalance is corrected.

46

The Gathering Shadow

It is a time of uncertainty. The
empire’s ambiguous tariff statutes
mandate close reexamination of
galactic import quotas. Interim
Princess Agoomba has co-chaired
a subcommittee to draft amendments
to existing trade policies

Meanwhile, regulatory agencies
are being heavily lobbied by a
consortium of mercantile interest
groups and their suppliers to
streamline loading restrictions for
class C cargo vessels. The shipping…

47

I just had a thought. Yoda told Luke in RotJ that he had to confront Vader in order to become a Jedi. Yoda had to know that Vader would be playing mind games with Luke in an attempt to turn him. So perhaps part of being a Jedi is acknowledging both sides of the Force and still being in control?

48

Well, part of being a Jedi is learning to overcome your own passions and impulses. And for Luke, Vader is a main source of passion.

49

So giving in to the Dark Side is just allowing your passions and impulses to control you?

50

I think you’re giving Lucas too much credit for having a coherent idea of what he was doing. The movies were great technical achievements. But as stories they were simply rehashed 50s westerns. They aren’t really that deep. What depth is there is brought to it by fans.

51

Well, yeah. That’s what the dark side is.

52

Possible proof that there is a dark side and is not an invention of its “practitioners”: In The Empire Strikes Back, Yoda allows Luke to enter a cave where the dark side influence is strong. Luke then battles a vision of Darth Vader and, from Yoda’s expression, gives in briefly to the dark side. He sees himself inside Vader’s helmet.

Basically, being a good Jedi means control of one’s emotions and accepting the dark side yet never embracing it. To embrace it and fully achieve the power it has to offer and yet manage to come out on top of the light side is something Anakin eventually does. He has explored all sides of the force and all its power. That makes him some kind of super Jedi.

53

So how is that any different from the Light side? In ANH, Obi Wan explains to Luke that the Force controls your actions, yet still obeys your commands. Vader and the Palpantine both seem to be in control of their powers. They don’t seem like they’re being controlled to me.

54

According to the next film, midichlorians are sentient beings and using the dark side of the force wakes them up. My guess is that midichlorians are evil and partially control you if you turn to the “dark side.” They could also explain the greater power the dark side seems to have.

55

With the technological advancements made in the Star Wars universe, why doesn’t a Jedi simply inject some midichlorians into his system? Kinda like steroids for Jedis!

And what’s up with cloning? Is a Vader clone as powerful, in theory, as Vader himself? Can you clone midichlorians? The force is present even in inanimate objects, according to Yoda. Do rocks have midichlorians? Are the ghostly Jedi, like Obi-Wan and Yoda, a midichlorian ectoplasm? Can you kill a midichlorian? Can midichlorians kick ass with a lightsaber, Pokeyodamon style? What are the long-term effects of a high midichlorian count? Can midichlorians figure out 2-D images? Did midichlorians kill Jesus? Why do midichlorians bob their heads? And, finally, how do you call a one-legged midichlorian? Hmmm?

56

For the same reason you can’t use a syringe to inject an extra mitochondria into each of the trillion cells of your body. Midichlorians are symbiotic life forms that exist within the cells themselves. You’re either born with a lot, or you aren’t. The higher the number of midichlorians per cell, the greater the Force potential.

57

Well, surely you can make some kind of viral midichlorian, one that attaches to DNA and duplicates itself whilst production being controlled by the force. Like, duh, man. :stuck_out_tongue:

58

Pure light and pure dark lead to the same thing, pure blindness. Neither one is superior to the other, that’s the denial of the Jedi, and why they must be brought low.

Don’t forget the story of Icarus and those that reached for too much light. They are no different from those who reach for too far into the depths.

You need light, matter and shadow to be able to see, without darkness there is no depth, without light there is no definition. The Jedi basically were leading the republic into a hazy lo-res universe and the will of all living creatures ruled against them.

Yoda understood many things, and while he might not have seen the exact fate of the Jedi, he knew that something was coming. When he trained young skywalker, he must have had this balance in mind.

Let’s pretend for one moment that the words good and evil actually mean anything at all outside of the political propaganda where they are used to justify any action. In that case the stories we find about Luke, Han and Leia are all rebel propaganda, how can you know what is true and what is not in them? It’s like watching a movie where muslims are just machines that run around screaming “Allahu Ackbar”. That would be not because the muslims actually ARE such machines, but because the likelihood is that Americans made the movie. As is this case, where the American Rebels fight off the British Empire. Neither Palpatine nor Vader’s motives were given any depth whatsoever, and the motives of our faithful heroes were mostly reactions to what they saw as human tragedy, nothing more. Yoda may have understood something deeper, Obi Wan may have understood something deeper, and I think both Palpatine and Vader understood something deeper, but the rest of the characters were simply reacting to their gut emotions, especially Luke, Luke was not in control of his emotions ONCE in the entire run of the films, except when he was getting his ass handed to him for trying to control his emotions.

And applying your pro-western bias about controlling your passions has nothing to do with which side is good and which is evil. To think that Light and Dark can be so simply quantified by one’s own personal biases lacks any depth or examination whatsoever.

The script says plainly that Annakin would be the one to return balance to the force.

As far as what Palpatine’s motives were, I don’t necessarily think he had a communist utopia in mind, that was a joke I was making as a possible motive to put an alternative spin to the bucolic spaghetti western style nostalgia people love so dearly.

Erek

59

One possibility, which makes sense to me, is that you have to be exposed to midichlorians from an early age (maybe from birth) or else your brain won’t develop the abilty to interact with them. Someone who can’t feel the Force would derive absolutely no benefit from injecting themselves with midis. Even a Jedi probably wouldn’t get much out of it, because their brains are already set for a certain level of interaction. It might even be dangerous, causing some sort of sensory overload.

60

Midichlorians are yet another example of why I don’t think Lucas really planned out the whole thing completely and is just winging it.