I often hear self-proclaimed geeks say that they have a strong interest in medieval things. It could be participation in Renaissance Faires or playing role-playing games with some medieval influence or themes. Because of this, it almost seems that medieval times have become something like Star Trek. One can’t admit a certain kind of interest in them without appearing geeky.
Interest in some other historical periods is not like this. Some people spend at least as much time and money participating in Civil War reenactments without coming off seeming geeky. Eccentric and redneck maybe, but not usually geeky. Likewise, strong interests in World War II or the time around the Revolutionary War are not usually considered geeky.
Why does the Medieval Period attract so many geeks?
The Highwayman and I wondered why it was that the Medieval period and not say, Classical Rome, is often the motif for roleplaying games.
The theory we came upon after discussing it was the relative sense of lawlessness and individuality that filled the order vacuum after the Roman empire fell. The sense of ruggedness, mystery (Christianity still being rather a new thing, adding a whole new flavor to the beliefs and superstitions at the time) and adventure. Yes adventure. With criminals all over the roads, no higher authority to protect them, going to the next town over would be a veritable expedition, and one that precious few people of the time would partake in.
I think you’ll find that the Old West is rather geeky too (just look at my family, bunch o’ Old West geeks if ever I saw 'em!) for pretty much the same reason.
I’d have to agree with tremorviolet. Fantasy is OVERWHELMINGLY medieval in setting and tone - there’s exceptions, but the great majority of fantasy literature has had a backdrop of castles, armored warriors, broadswords, and medieval levels of technology. The sine qua non of all fantasy literature, the Lord of the Rings, is medieval.
When role playing games first became poular the big one was of course Dungeons and Dragons, a medieval setting, and since then almost all video games and RPGs on the subject copy one or both of those sources. We are still sitting in the middle of the influence of those two things - Lord of the Rings and D&D.
I’m going to have to go along with tremorviolent on this one. It isn’t just recent fantasy literature I think. The middle ages have been romanticized for many years. Hell, it was romanticized with stories of courtly love and chivalry while it was still going on. Just about every one of us is at least partly familiar with King Arthur, his big round table, and of course Excaliber. Then there are stories of lovely damsels that need to be rescued from the clutches of some evil wizard, dragon, or ogre.
On the other hand we had generations of kids growing up on romanticised images of American west. They certainly had fantasy literature in the first half of the 20th century but how many clubs like the SCA existed? Perhaps that goes beyond the scope of the OP but it’s an interesting question.
I thought that this was part of the question… Why is medieval stuff so nifty that everyone keeps writing all their fiction about it. I mean, certainly, “because the guy before me did” is not nothing, but I’m not sure that is quite a solution.
Personally, I would posit that Medieval times became famous because it was the last time in the country that we got English from where it was both fairly lawless, and yet was being recorded in writing. So simply, beause it’s after the Romans and before the establishment of central government and law.
Similarly for the old West. It was unruly and wild, but there was people there who knew what an orderly society looked like and were able to record that time and place.
Probably, part of the thing we like about these stories is the sense of the unbridled country coming to an end, and order being established; something both sad and satisfying.
I agree with most of this except I think you can overstate the influence of early Dungeons & Dragons. The root cause of the strong medieval grip is Tolkein.
While I agree that D&D had something to do with popularizing it can’t possibly be stated enough how much Gygax’s original game (not necessarily Chainmail but the original paperback books) stole directly from Tolkein. I swear Tolkein should have flown to Wisconsin and kicked Gygax in the ass for it.
It’s one of those great reasons why the original books say ‘Hobbit’ and ‘Ent’ and such while the later hardbacks say ‘Halfling’ and ‘Treant’.
It’s all Tolkein. Directly. The influence he had (and has) on the genre is mind-staggering.
I didn’t mean to categorize D&D as the fonthead from which a geeky preoccupation with all things Medieval flow. I understand about the Fantasy genre owes its entire existence to Tolkien – indeed, JRRT is the only ‘traditional’ fantasy I read (unless HP counts as traditional).
What’s more to the point, why is the medieval period so intriguing to everyone (not just “geeks”)? Why did JRRT have the preoccupation in the first place? I already cited a few things that may have contributed towards it, although Tolkien’s fascination with this time period has much to do with period linguistics.
From all the ogling I got at the only Renaissance Faire I’ve ever attended, my theory is that male geeks like Ren Faires largely because of the cleavage.
Self-proclaimed geek and AD&D player here, and I’ve always thought that part of the draw is the perceived chivalry of the time.
Righting the wrongs and slaying the fearsome dragon who’s been terrorizing local villagers… there’s a certain romanticism about it that is easier to accomplish without sacrificing modern day “manliness”. For instance, if you put forth an effort to be openly chivalrous or romantic for your girlfriend, one dopey friend or another has to comment that you’re “whipped”, whereas if you cut down a ruthless despot to rescue the princess, you’re a hero.
Whereas modern society seems to be so much in the grey, everything back then (in the gaming genre and the novels anyway) was very black or white. Demons = bad, elves = good, etc…
Also, I think most young males have pretend sword fights with their friends, or try to fashion a bow with a stick and a string… so there might be some sort of natural interest buried in the male psyche to a world where people walk around with long swords and crossbows.
I’m sure there are a multitude of other reasons, but I’d like to dispel the myth that all, or even most, RPG’s are set in the dark ages. There are just as many modern day or futuristic or space-age or super-hero games as medieval. And I think any reason one could argue that people play, say, AD&D could also be used to explain why some people play Shadowrun or Vampire: The Masquerade.
J. R. R. Tolkien wasn’t a full-time professional author. He had a day job – he was Professor of Anglo Saxon (=medieval English) at Oxford University. He wrote what is still considered to be the best single essay about “Beowulf,” “The Monsters and the Critics”. Professor Tolkien had a somewhat unusual hobby (for a professor) in that he had invented a language to play with, and then he wrote stories about the imaginary people who “spoke” his language. He then transformed his language to experience how languages change over long periods of time. He wrote The Lord of the Rings as a sequel to his wildly popular children’s book, The Hobbit, and he used his made-up languages (and the stories he’d been writing for years) in it.
LoTR isn’t really set in the middle ages, Middle Earth is supposed to be our own earth, and these stories are imagined to have taken place in the most ancient pre-history of humanity. But they have a lot of details that seem medieval in a general sense (horses, swords, etc.). Medieval times had been a fantasyland for imaginative Europeans throughout the 19th century, and Tolkien was seen as following in this tradition.
That’s it for Tolkien, as for the geeks, many posters on this thread already have the right answer – Tolkien’s own writings have been phenomenally popular, widely imitated in other fantasy novels (a genre that didn’t exist before LoTR), and they were the explicit basis for Dungeons and Dragons, and hence fantasy gaming. That’s the geek connection right there.
For more on Tolkien and his works, I recommend Tom Shippey’s J. R. R. Tolkien: Author of the Century (Houghton Mifflin, 2000). The biography by Humphrey Carpenter is very good, if not very exciting. For more on the 19th century fascination with all thing medieval, I recommend Chris Brooks, The Gothic Revival (Phaidon, 1999).
(I’m not really Pochacco, I’m his wife borrowing his account. I’m a professor myself, a musicologist who specializes in the medieval period. I also teach a class on medievalism in popular culture, in which I lecture on Tolkien.)
This whole thread got me to thinking whether or not geeks really are drawn to the middle ages any more then they’re driven to other things. Firstly, anyone who dresses in period costumes as a hobby are kind of geeky. It dosn’t matter if you’re dressing as a civil war soldier, a Klingon, or as a lord or lady from the 15th century. I’m not saying geek as though it’s a bad thing but if you speak Klingon or Esperanto you’re probably beyond saving.
If anything I’d have to say that science fiction is an even bigger geek draw then the middle ages. There’s only so many people who wear armor and hit each other in public parks compared to the amount of people who dress like Star Trek characters and meet in huge convention centers. Of course the amount of geeks drawn to either the middle ages or science fiction doesn’t answer the question presented in the OP. I should probably sleep to avoid rambling further but I’ll go on.
I agree with you soulmurk. I don’t remember exactly when I learned about King Arthur and Excaliber but I was pretty darn young. I learned about knights, damsels in distress, and jousting long before I was exposed to Greek mythology. And, at least for me, I spent part of my youth in Europe touring castles, looking at arms & armor, and attending some kick ass middle age style festivles in Munich that put most ren fairs I’ve seen in the states to shame.
Literature: Most fantasy literature is stuck in a pseudo Europe because that’s where some of the most influential fantasy writers went. It wasn’t just Tolkien it included other people such as Howard. I stopped reading any fantasy book with elves or dwarves in them after I read Lord of the Rings for the first time.
RPGs: I think that even today the fantasy RPG is the meat & potatoes of that particular industry. Early RPGs were influenced by writers of that genre so most fantasy RPGs just ripped them off. D&D didn’t just rip off Tolkien though the magic system in particular, the fire and forget spells, were influenced by another author who I can’t recall. Vance maybe? Computer RPGs tried to emulate pen & paper games so it’s no surprise most of them had pseudo European settings for their fantasy worlds.
As a gentle aside ** shag ** our geekly offspring have moved away from D & D. My son has many many friends who come over to play Halo and other video games which are founded in World War II. What I can understand about this is: it’s their way of a * do over* of past conflicts which they can turn around and say “if I were there, I’d do XYZ” instead of what really happened. What you and I had as kids to look back on was Camelot. What they have to look back on is Normandy Beach.
I definitely think yinz are on to something there.
I’ve also noticed that certain aspects of the Middle Ages are far more popular in fantasy writing and role playing games than others. Practically nobody wants to be or write about the life of a serf, for example, although that was reality for most people of the period. Partly that’s because a serf’s life was nasty, brutish, and short, of course. About as far from romantic as it’s possible to be. But partly it’s also because of the appeal of the guilds. In theory, in the guilds, everyone started out as an apprentice. In theory, if you worked hard and were competent at what you did, you could rise in stature and become a journeyman, and in theory, if you were really really good at it, you could become a master, which brought wealth and social power. Of course I doubt it was ever that simple, but in the romantic version of things, hard work and skill were fittingly rewarded. I don’t think it’s a mystery why this would appeal to a geeky teen or pre-teen, a kid who is smart and works hard at school and in return is overlooked by overworked teachers and hassled by peers. The serf, on the other hand, is stuck being a serf no matter what he does, and what fun is that?
