As a lifetime non-believer in religion, I have to admit I am forced into at least Deism by the mere existence of the universe. One look at this picture:
has to humble any one of us. Given this sort of thing, we must conclude there was some creator. The creation stories of terrestrial religions look stupid in comparison to this. Yet why is this here at all? Why does anything exist?
Astronomy is some scary shit.
And yeah, some might say this belongs in IMHO, but I want ANSWERS, dammit!
Our universe is a currently expanding bubble, enmeshed in a practically endless seafoam of other bubbles/universes. Some of these universes are touching our bubble and have influence on our universe. Others do not, except through contact with those universes that abut ours.
Beneath this seafoam swims a practically endless number of turtles.
I’m still working out the math on the turtles, but I’ll get back to you when done.
Look, I read Mr. Kaku’s books, and I believe he is as insane as any other theoretical physicist. L. Ron Hubbard makes as much sense as any of these guys.
It is the old conundrum. God created the Universe. Who created God?
And to think we will all become worm food and never be given the answer. This shit is intolerable!
No, we don’t; so far everything we see can be explainable by nature as far as we can tell. And, saying “goddidit” doesn’t do anything but push the question of origins back a step.
What’s to stop it? There’s no reason to think that there’s any “why” deeper than “it just happened”.
Except we really don’t know anything about the first few seconds of the universe. Science has no answer for that.
Allright, then “How?” How did something come from nothing?
I understand Trihs, that you are very anti-religion, perhaps the most atheistic person on this board, if not on earth, and you have elucidated the many reasons you despise religion as we know it. I agree with most of those sentiments. But what about Deism? Deists never fought holy wars, never sought to impose their will on others, and in fact never claim that they have any monopoly on the truth. In fact, just the opposite. But they do recognize that the universe must have some purpose and a creator. Why do you have a problem with that?
And The Big Bang explanation is different, how? Isn’t it just another form of begging the question “What came before, and if there was nothing “before”, why occur then?”
No. We only tend to think that way because of our skewed human perspective. It seems that by a quirk of evolution our brains will tend to see a conscious agency behind almost everything. Not to sound too flippant but as I see it the universe is basically just a bunch of stuff happening, so the question “why?” becomes meaningless. You might as well ask why a caesium atom decayed at a particular moment. Same deal, it just happened.
Actually science has a pretty good idea of how the first few seconds went.
What was there to stop it? And that’s assuming that there ever was “nothing”.
Because it’s wrong, it’s useless at best, and because it aids and abets the more directly dangerous believers.
No, the Big Bang is something we have a great deal of evidence for, it makes scientific predictions that turn out to be true, and it violates no physical laws. In other words, it’s a useful scientific theory and not a useless religious delusion.
If you believe in a creator then why not give him another title a God.
If you then accept that there is a God, no matter what his name is then is it possible to accept that he may have created rules?
If he created rules then we have some kind of following, religion, so is it SO hard to accept there is something called religion and what we see today being expressed as the religions is not how it was intended?
Could it not be that we ‘man’ have changed much of what this religion means?
If that’s the case then the Quran is right.
Man changed the religion and beliefs from what God originally intended.
So maybe Muslims have it right. Even though most do NOT practice the religion, only some man made rituals.
To look at that picture to me there is no doubt in my mind there is a God.
I cannot fathom out why anyone could not believe there is a creator.
Because that means you can’t pretend that you aren’t making a religious argument.
Or maybe it was some religion that died out 7000 years ago that was right. There’s just as much evidence for that as for the Muslims or Christians or any other religion being right; namely, none whatsoever.
Because you conclusion that there is a creator is baseless, and because amazingly enough people are quite capable of actually disagreeing with you.
Are you one of those people who doesn’t believe in atheists? Thinks we are all faking?
Repeating what I’ve said on many such debates before:
IMO the issue of how anything can exist, and why this kind of reality exists, is a genuine unsolved mystery.
But I fail to see what we gain from throwing a god entity into the picture. It explains nothing, and creates other problems.
It’s a complete nonsequitur to me: “Gee, we can’t explain the origins of this reality so OK that means there must be some super-powered guy…”
