In looking back through the thread, I don’t see all that many misrepresentations. Which ones are you talking about?
As for attacks on something without definition, wouldn’t you say that the true nature of spirituality is one of the least well-defined things going? Religious faith is, by definition, beyond the realm of factual knowledge.
Looking back again through the posts, it really seems like this thread has been relatively venom-free.
I agree whole-heartedly with the air of peaceful and enlightened exchange that you are trying to promote; however, I think there are other threads that are in much more dire need of “shaming” - why waste it here, in a relatively civilized (as far as message boards go) discussion?
Jumbo shrimnp is not an oxymoron since “shrimp” is a noun and “jumbo” is the adjective. Seafood is entirely capable of being large, and its largeness in no way compromises its identity as seafood.
Some of the things that I’ll give a hearty “Amen!!” to:
With the caveat that I’m not sure what the money lenders are here for exactly, and (having no intention of diverting this thread from its intended course) because I’m completely against bashing gays, literally or verbally, it doesn’t mean that I believe they’re doing something that’s good for them. The two aren’t the same thing.
Also:
I’m not saying that spirituality isn’t complicated. Of course. But if there is such a thing as spirituality (in other words, spirits that are not like ourselves; that’s pretty much what it means), then they are what they are, and our interactions or lack of them are what they are, and have the effects that they do. No matter of wishful thinking will change that.
And no, you can’t have spirituality without spirits. That’s called philosophy, not spirituality. Being nice is not spirituality. Believing in something non-material is.
The Bible is the best “dataset” there is, who honestly has read it, and studied it? I’ve met a lot of Christians and non-Christians alike that have not studied the literature of the “other”; and truly, having studied non-Christian literature all my life, the Bible is a breath of fresh air.
God is dead, that’s pretty dumb: from someone who only believes in what he/she sees, but has nothing to do with creation in the slightest (man’s life is insignificant). The point is, people don’t want the truth, they want what makes them happy, and happiness is ever changing. People will always forever be lost. God is for those that would believe, the weak, the humble, not the proud, or the selfish. Why would God reveal himself to them? Only if he saw in them a good heart, that he could use for his purposes. God’s wisdom is a mystery, he’s really awesome and incredible.
Religion, philosophy, politics are of men. God is the most real, man simply a creation of his. The smartest men and women I know are believers, in fact that’s why I changed my major in college to Physics, because the physicists confounded by the incredible creation of the universe were believers to the core of an incredible God, making the world in his liking.
. . . And we’re off to the races again. You guys all realize (especially the nice and logical ones of you out there on both sides of the issue) that NOTHING!!! ever gets resolved on one of these threads right?
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What sounds like the usual to you - there’s a lot of stuff in this thread. And how does any of it sound like the above?
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How so?
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You haven’t been paying attention. First of all, I don’t think anyone said God is Dead. A few people claimed that He never existed to begin with, however.
And atheists do not feel that life is insignificant. In fact, it can be argued that if this mortal coil is all we have, you’re bound to treat it with a lot more reverence than if you think that this is just some shit you deal with before the real rewards, don’t you think?
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What if the truth makes you happy? What if your truth is not my truth?
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Some people have more faith in people. If God created such a fucked up race of people, what does this say about Him (or Her)?
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My, that sure makes ME want to be His cheerleader. :rolleyes:
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So what you’re3 saying is that for those who tried but failed to hear Him, they were… I dunno… not worthy of being revealed to? My, what a petty tyrant. I’m so glad that I don;'t know this person you speak of.
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Such a mystery that we have so many different names for Him and ways to worship Him while some people don’t even think He was ever there.
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Some would say that God is a creation of man.
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I don’t see many members of the clergy at MENSA meeetings.
Not to say that relgious people are dumb, but your statement is patently false unless you simply don’t know enough people to really count here.
Nice Bible quote too. I suppose you have some words from The Koran as well?
Yer pal,
Satan
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Just thought I’d step in and provide some statistics here. According to this article, belief rates among members of the National Academy of Sciences are astoundingly low. Not only are they well below belief rates of the general public, but they have been steadily declining since 1914. To top it off, the most prestigious and accomplished scientists are the least religious.
Also, there is a spectacular website (http://www.webspawner.com/users/cfxx/) which presents the results of numerous studies, all showing statistically significant negative correlations between intelligence/education and religosity.
As an atheist, I consider all of these data strong support for my lack of belief. Not that I consider argument from authority valid, but it seems to me that if God existed, his existence would be just as evident (probably more evident) to the most intelligent members of his creation, not less evident.
I started a new thread on the tangent that Opus1 started, since it is something I myself have often wondered about and I think it deserves its own debate.
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I’ve been bothered by some things said in this thread by the Christians, and they remind me of so many other things said in other threads. Driving along to a client, it came to me what bugs me about these replies.
Hey Christians:
No one was ever converted without some form of personal revelation, and writing posts that are basically complaining at the non-Christians on this board for not believing is an extremely poor-return method of doing anything productive.
PEOPLE ARE LOVED INTO THE “KINGDOM,” NOT BULLIED.
And this is not a setting very conducive to doing that. Being mad at non-Christians for not believing is not only not productive, it doesn’t even make much sense when it’s really examined.
OK, I think I officially despair of having even the semblance of a low key discussion on these topics around here. What is it in people like Hastur that bring these things out? Plus, I really don’t understand at all how Trisk. deserves something even close to this. I suppose this isn’t a case for the moderators, but JEEEEEZZZZZ!
For anyone interested (I’m not sure why you would be, but anyway,) in my slant on these threads, see the thread titled “Witness.”
Hastur, Do NOT post anything like this ever again in this forum. Understood? Go to the Pit if you feel the unbearable need to post such charming witticisms.
The point, and the anger behind my post, was that after lambasting the previous poster for not ‘witnessing’ in a way you considered appropriate, you did the same thing.
Your request for forgiveness, as it encompassed those who did not worship your god, came off as arrogant and insulting. Just because others have a faith that is not yours does not give you carte blanche to feel that they must be pitied and prayed for until they come to your point of view.
Yes, from the point of view of a non-Christian we were both witnessing. I was addressing the intent of his words, and the likely result. I felt it important that the Lord not be represented by what I felt was a smug condemnation of His Children. (That would be all men, in case you wondered, although I do not expect that you share that view.)
I was not aware that asking forgiveness was an insult. Please never forgive me again.
That is a specifically personal request for you, at your insistence. It pains me that you find my request so insulting. To the rest of the non-Christians on the board, I do not withdraw my request for their forgiveness. I do not think it was an insult to them.
I never asked you to come to my point of view. Your anger elicits my concern, but I don’t think it is pity. However you seem absolute in your disregard for any compassion I might have for you, so I will attempt to withhold it from you.
The rest of the posters on the board must grant or deny their forgiveness for my presumption as they see fit. I have great confidence that they do not find it insulting, for the most part.
I’m willing to bet no one really ever groks calculus without a personal revelation either. (OK, maybe not, but there are a number of areas where people suddenly slap their forehead and go “oh, I get it”) Are you saying no one should teach calculus?
I think he clearly means the people who aren’t even trying – i.e. the proud and haughty. You really lambasted this guy with a number of ungracious and petty points like this, do you know that?
