Why should Jews survive?

Great Debates
101

Most of everything is junk, Zev.

Look at all of human history: even presuming that our current beliefs about the nature of the world are completely correct (which seems hideously unlikely), the vast majority of human “knowledge” is simply incorrect.

Homogenization doesn’t strike me as being a good thing. Everyone might have different ways of doing things… but if the concepts of “right” and “good” have any actual meaning, the reasons why people do things should inevitably become the same.

You’ve suggested that people maintain specific traditions. If it were merely the case that these traditions were just ways to meet a more general principle, then another way of doing things should be just as good, right?

I’m not saying that Jews should become “like everyone else”, primarily because there is no “like everyone else”. I see no reason why people should stick to a set of established customs and traditions merely because their parents did.

If variety is truly the spice of life, would you approve of a Jew who ignored the traditions you associate with Judaism? What about a Christian Jew? If you really valued differences, you’d be thrilled about variety within your community… but I get the strong sense you’d be horrified instead.

102

Variety is the spice of life. But like all spices, it needs to be taken in moderation. You posited earlier that you would try everything (apparently disregarding the consequences). That’s a position that I disagree with.

You are correct that I would disagree with a Jew converting to Christianity, etc. But those objections are based on religious grounds.

In the end, as has been explained on these boards, it boils down to the fact that I believe God said to keep the commandments. That’s why I perform them. It’s that simple. I understand that you disagree with both the factuallity of that statement and the implications of someone following the commandments because of that position (regardless of whether the statement is true or not). On this we will simply have to agree to disagree.

Zev Steinhardt

103

But Eva Luna doesn’t believe that God said to keep the commandments (or at least, she’s not sure). So why should she keep them? I understand why you’d want her to keep them, since you think God wants her to do so… but why should she particularly care what you think? (I’m sorry if that sounds harsh, but the point is valid.)

I don’t think you want everyone to act the same, but I do think that you want all people within an arbitrary category that you define to act the same.

It doesn’t matter what I think, or what you think, or what anyone thinks. If you don’t have a reason to live whatever way you do, enough time will see the end of that way of life, one way or another. Things that are arbitrary change and vanish – that’s just the way the world is.

If you were truly concerned with the preservation of your traditions, I think you’d be more concerned about being able to demonstrate their value, since ultimately that will determine your success at propagating them.

(Is it possible to want to preserve traditions because doing so is itself traditional?)

104

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I never presented it as anything other than my (and normative Jewish thought’s) opinion. Eva Luna is free to accept or reject what I’ve said.

**

I’ve attempted to do so on the last page. You rejected my reasoning.

Well, since self-preservation (on both the individual and societal level) is instictual, I would agree that your last statement is at least partially valid.

Zev Steinhardt

105

Sorry it’s taken me a while to get back; life intervened (specifically, work intervened).

**Zev, ** in a certain sense TVAA understood my opinion, although I would have expressed it rather differently (and perhaps a bit less abruptly). It must be difficult for those who do believe in God to understand why others don’t. And it’s still difficult for those who believe in God, but are not Orthodox Jews, to understand why Orthodox Jews feel it’s a necessity to follow all the zillions of highly exacting rules to the letter. I think even if I did decide that I believed in God, I would never understand why God would care whether I had 4 sets of dishes in my kitchen, or whether I covered my hair, or whether I wore jeans and tank tops, or whether I recited a particular set of Hebrew words while lighting candles on Shabbat. There are many chunks of strict Jewish religious observance for which I simply don’t see the objective value.

There are other rituals, though, for which I do see the value, even though I may not take them literally. I believe Seder is a good thing on a number of levels; everyone, especially kids, needs to understand the mechanics and effects of persecution and ethnic/religious divisiveness. Purim? Same thing. If people find guidance and solace in prayer, more power to them, although I would be careful to note that just because a person doesn’t pray to an old white guy in the sky, that by no means signifies that he/she isn’t spiritual. Believe me, I may not pray to any entity in particular, or even put it into words much of the time, but I guess I do pray in a certain sense. On some level, I guess I do believe there exists a spiritual force that is greater than humankind. Maybe I’d make a good Ba’hai or something. And the reason I have a problem with going to synagogue is that I simply can’t make myself recite stuff that I don’t believe. I’ve memorized enough stuff in transliteration to be able to follow a Reform service comfortably, but I always find myself sitting there feeling like a hypocrite, even if I do love the music. Every time I hear a bit about the “chosen people,” I cringe; I really don’t believe that the Jewish people are intrinsically more special that any other self-defined group.

Another point of TVAA’s that I want to address: in a way, yes, if you want kids to grow up feeling Jewish, and if the kids have two synapses to rub together, you should be able to provide explanations that make logical sense for why Jews do things. Maybe I would feel differently about it if I hadn’t had such a woefully pitiful formal Jewish education; most of the kids in my Sunday school class were there, quite frankly, because they knew if they had a bar/bat mitzvah they’d get lots of cool presents. That’s not how I’m wired, and the atmosphere in itself was a big turnoff to me. But a bigger turnoff was that every time I asked a question, even the most basic (“which word in this sentence is the verb? Why is this the first prayer in the service? What is the point in not mixing milk and meat?”), it was met with blank stares. If my teachers didn’t know, why should I even care?

Another big turnoff: in Chicago winters, when temps frequently reach 40 below zero and there was no public transportation in my town and my mom had no car because we were too broke, the stupid principal thought the fact that I was wearing jeans instead of a skirt was important enough to send me home for violating the dress code, but never thought to ask why an otherwise ridiculously well-behaved and obedient kid was having trouble complying with a simple rule. Did anyone think to ask if I needed a ride, my own father included, all of whom lived within a 5-minute drive? Isn’t concern for one’s neighbor a Jewish concept, especially if the kid is from a very acrimoniously divorced family? Apparently not. What kind of message does that send a sensitive and impressionable kid about Jewish values and the importance of a Jewish education?

OK, I’m babbling now, but I hope I’ve made at least a couple of relevant points. Time to cut my losses.