I don’t think he objects to the usual “can I hold the door?” people do for each other, it’s the insistence on helping when he says “no” because of a perception he’s helpless. Offer ALL disabled people the say courtesy you’d offer to someone able-bodied.
And I think that holds for every other disabled person who’s checked in here - the problem isn’t the courtesy of offering to door-hold normally extended from one person to another, it’s the assumption that they don’t know their own minds/capabilities when they say “no”.
“No thanks, I can manage.”
“No thanks, there’s the automatic door activation button here I can use.”
“No thanks, I’m actually not going through that door.”
Ignoring any of the above seems to be the problem, not the initial offer of help. And if I’m wrong on that the disabled person I was wrong about can certainly reply and say so.
I agree that’s the main issue, and it’s totally appalling that it even needs to be discussed. But there have also been comments like “look at me, not the chair, I’m not a frail old lady” that suggests the second can also be frustrating. And understandably so. But the awkwardness on the other side is more understandable, as well.
And is the standard really “offer only what you’d offer anyone”. I don’t offer to get items off the top shelf for people my height, but if an old lady in a scooter was visibly stretching for something right next to me, I’d offer to hand it to her (and honor her response without comment) . Is that inappropriate? Is it less appropriate of if I made offer that offer to a young and healthy person in a chair?
he’s made a lot of posts. The jackass who got into his car? Yeah, that’s just a bizarre thing to do. The person who ignores him when he says “no thanks”? That’s rude. But the person who ignores the old lady who says “no thanks”? That’s rude, too.
I thought Ambivalid was also annoyed at being asked, because people just see the wheels, and not his fitness. And I bet that’s annoying as hell. But I’d probably do it, because I do tend to assume that if your hands are occupied with wheels you might find the door itself more difficult.
I’m curious whether I should be slower to offer help in that sort of situation.
Again, not how I read his posts. His issue, as far as I can tell, is that people assume he’s helpless (like an old lady in a wheelchair) so they ignore his “no thanks” responses. It doesn’t occur to them that a strong adult doesn’t need the help, so they railroad over him.
The only reason I use “elderly woman” in this example is because that’s about the farthest thing from me, a muscular young man. I used this example to highlight the fact that people will ask me if I need help for the exact same thing they’d ask an elderly woman about, irrespective of whether or not I’m struggling in the least bit. That is different that asking us both if we need help if we both are struggling at whatever it is. And I only say this as an observation, not something I am trying to change.
The following posts are all from this thread and they all highlight the nature of my complaint. And they are most certainly not what you’re interpreting them as.
1).
2).
3).
[QUOTE=Ambivalid]
If you’ve paid attention to the thread, I make it clear that I do not expect anyone to make any sort of distinction between me and any other disabled person. Period. I have the utmost respect and empathy for elderly women, my point wasn’t to denigrate them at all. It was to make the point that it doesn’t matter who is in the wheelchair. It could be a young, buff bodybuilder or it could be an elderly woman. To many in the public, we’re one and the same. I can’t change how one sees me, but, regardless of how they see me, they should still respect me just the same. Ditto for the elderly woman in the chair. Everyone deserves to be respected.
[/QUOTE]
4).
I explained this above. Both people should be offered help if both are struggling. But it’s not the appearance of struggling that motivates people to ask if I need help (at least not much of the time), it’s the sight of a disabled person doing something that the good samaritan sees as being easier to do themselves for the disabled person.
Some people are gonna judge you, whether you’re in a wheelchair or not. Some people are gonna try to help you whether you need it or not; whether you’re in a wheelchair or not. You may not notice but there are alot more people who, everyday, don’t ignore you, but let you do for yourself without offering to help. You pass by these people everyday and don’t even know.
You cannot control, or really even influence to any great degree, how others perceive you; whether you’re in a wheelchair or not. Therefore the only logical course for your own sanity and emotional well being, is to try not to take it too personally. Try not to judge them too harshly for their ignorance. Thank them for their efforts, and go about your business.
Jesus fucking christ. Did you read the post just above you?? I am not talking about being judged or being asked if I need help when I don’t. It’s being ignored when I tell them no thanks. Am I writing in Pig Latin or something? Would you just accept not being respected and treated as a co-equal adult?
ETA: and I’m never, in a million years, going to thank someone who has forced their help on me.
And here we have again yet another person NOT listening to what someone is saying.
Mike, WTF? You have no clue. This isn’t about occasional episodes, it’s probably (based on other disabled folks I’ve known, including the one I lived with for 30 years) a DAILY occurrence that might even happen multiple times per day.
Apparently you think Ambivalid is blind and deaf as well as non-walking if you have the audacity to lecture him about being judged by others. Your “only logical course for your own sanity and emotional well being, is to try not to take it too personally” is basically telling someone to put up with abuse and oppression. Women should just tolerate sexist remarks and cat-calls. Minorities should just put up with racial slurs and being segregated. The disabled should simply suck it up and accept they’ll always be treated as lesser beings that are completely helpless and don’t even know their own mind.
Of course, Mike Curtis, you probably still think it’s the offer of help that’s offensive. It’s not. It’s ignoring the person saying “thanks but no thanks” and imposing on them regardless.
Let me draw a few analogies for you:
“Thank you for talking to my boobs instead of my face”
“Thank you for grabbing my ass in a crowded elevator”
“Thank you for assuming I’m a high school drop out due to the color of my skin and refusing to hire me instead of checking my resume and seeing I have a PhD.”
“Thank you for assuming I don’t speak English because I have Asian features”
Not that I’m really expecting you to get it, by this point in the thread I’m speaking for people who might be coming across the debate and reading it but not really participating.
People are going to ignore you whether you’re in a wheelchair or not. People are going to try and help you whether you say “no, thank you” or not, whether you’re in a wheelchair or not. There are gonna be people who accuse you of not being able to read and missing the point of your rant even when you can and did not, whether you are in a wheelchair or not.
When someone pisses you off because of something they have done what are your options? You have NO control over their actions, but you do have control over your reaction to their actions. You can get mad, and let that anger eat away at you and influence how you interact with others. Or you can not get angry. It does, after all, have nothing to do with the reality of who you are and what you are capable of.
And don’t forget all those people you pass everyday, who far out number the ones who ignore your words, who do see you as the person you are and are respectful of your wishes.
If someone opens a door for me, whether I want them to or not, whether I need them to or not, whether I’ve said “no, thanks” or not, I thank them for the effort. It doesn’t change me one bit.
Do you get mad at automatic doors that open whether you need them to or not; whether you’ve asked them to or not. I am thankful. You can choose to be thankful or angry, it’s up to you.
See, this right here shows me that there is no point in further discourse with you. And
you’re telling me that people ignore your answers as to whether you need help or not on a regular basis? Forgive me for being dubious.
Thank you for thinking that I don’t understand. Thank you for being so quick to judge that youv’e misunderstood my point.
your analogies don’t work. If someone is talking to your boobs and you say “my eyes are up here” but they ignore you and continue to talk to your boobs, that’s on them not on you. thank you for talking to me. If someone offers to open the door for you and you say “no thanks” and they open the door anyway, that’s on them, not on you. Thank you for opening the door You’ve done your part and they don’t get it. you have no more control over them, you only have control over your reaction to them. You can get angry if you want but it doesn’t change anything in the moment. All it does is make you feel bad. I’m not saying you have to ignore the behavior and “just let it go” I’m saying getting all worked up does nothing except make you feel bad.
I hold doors for anyone coming behind me and I step aside and hold the door for people to enter places before me, and and am very courteous in other similar social situations. This is not because it “makes me feel good about myself,” it’s because I was raised in a very polite culture and was taught to regard courtesy as part of the social contract.
I also volunteer, very politely, to help folks who seem to be struggling with physical difficulties. In most cases they are happy for the aid, in a few instances they’ve made it clear they don’t want/need help so I back off immediately. You are, of course, pitting folks who don’t respect your boundaries and are unable to take “no” for an answer – still, please keep in mind that many people are simply being courteous to other humans.
Thank you for assuming what I am capable of and what I experience on a daily basis. Thank you for assuming I haven’t read the rest of the thread and am disagreeing with you.
I am not assuming I understand your situation. I am only saying anger does nothing to change anything you have said. All it will do is make you miserable over time…
The ignorant deserve you patience and education, not your anger and judgement.
[QUOTE=Budhda]
Holding on to anger is like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die
[/QUOTE]
What, for instance, would your reaction be if you had just entered your car in a parking lot and all of a sudden, a stranger comes up without asking or even announcing their presence and leans into your car and fastens your seatbelt for you. Let me guess, you’d be grateful and you’d thank them.