I did not attack you and I tried to answer your question, but if you continue to hit “ENTER” at the end of each line on the response window, preventing word wrapping on larger screens, we’re going to have a real Pit fest.
Let the software do the work. Please do not force us to scroll past 50 lines of text with lots of right-hand white space just to read 20 lines of text. Only hit “ENTER” at the end of a paragraph (at which time I’ll let you hit it twice).
(Sorry Kyla, it was a typo.)
oh, and Klaatu, in regards to the “let the race baiting begin”, It was my understanding that the Race aspect ment the presidential race, but please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
Klaatu: If you had a simple legitimate question you would have posted it in GQ. You wouldn’t have posted in an inflammatory way.
On the other hand if you were looking to whip up some unpleasantness, you would have posted here in the way you did.
picmr
Klaatu, did you read my posts at ALL? Jews don’t consider themselves to be a RACE, but a PEOPLE. A nation, a group, who might or might not practice a specific religion. It is not JUST the religion. To persist on saying that only emphasizes your ignorance and inability to comprehend.
Where were you called anti-Semitic?
Was it on this thread? If so, please point me to where this happened.
Was it on another thread? If so, please post a link.
Oh, Allah in pumps, boy. Martyr much? That’s the typical response from someone who’s getting flack and can’t handle it. “Oh, you’re being mean to me, you must be small-minded.”
Buy an original argument, willya? Sheesh.
One last time, really slowly: Judiasm is a religion. Jewish can be either a religion or an ethnic group. “Jew” is a distinct ethnicity. Deal with it.
Jews are not considered a distinct ethnicity because of their religion. They are considered a distinct ethnicity because they are a istinct ethnicity.
Follow? It’s possible to be a Wiccan Jew (we have one on the Board, actually–he’s ethnically Jewish, religiously pagan). It’s possible to be a black Jew (Sammy!).
There is some confusion due to the two different measures being used to define Jews. One, referenced by SpoilerVirgin and others, refers to the definition of Jew from a Talmudic/religious law perspective. The other refers to the popular description applied to people.
Regarding the first, religious law, definition, it is correct that it depends totaly on maternal lineage. There has recently been a move by the Reform movement to recognize paternal lineage, but this has not historically been normative Jewish religious law.
Danielinthewolvesden is incorrect in his assertion that someone who converts to another religion is not Jewish. Such a person may be considered to be no longer Jewish for performing certain religious functions. But technicly they are still Jewish. If they rejoin Judaism they do not have to convert, their children do not have to convert etc.
If they have been completely swallowed up by gentile society for generations it is not clear (to me, at least) if they are still considered Jewish.
In terms of the popular references to Jews as being a race, I believe it is simply because the Jewish religion is primarily practiced by those of common descent, and vice versa. There are some exceptions, as in people who convert one way or the other. But for the most part, a common culture and ancestry is shared. This is not the case with many other religions.
The assertion, by Kyla, that over a period of 1000 years Ashkenazim had an intermarriage rate of about 5% sounds rediculous to me. I would bet that the true figure is not more than 100th of a percent (until recent generations), and consisted exclusively of converts.
I do not believe that the OP was trolling or being hateful in his question. It would appear to me that he wished to shoot off his mouth about something that he considered stupid, and considered the Pit the appropriate place for this. No harm in this.
I tried to find a link to a story that was in the NY Times a while back about a tribe in southern Africa that claims to be Jewish. They were proven to be Jewish due to the fact that a significant percentage of the population carried a gene that is associated with the Cohens, the Jews who are allowed to become Rabbis. When people are persecuted the way Jews have been, you tend to migrate a lot, so that they will include various phenotypes (which are what is often confused with race). An equivalent question to “are Jews a race?” would be “are Romany (Gypsies) a race?” Since they also share a long history of persecution and migration.
The point at which a race begins is a very grey area. I have often wondered about Mormonism. Practishioners also tend to marry within the faith, which leads to a bit a genetic isolation. ALthough obviously since there was not as much time of seperation as the Jewish race, its not as noticable, there is a bit of a mormon look for many deep generational Mormons. I’m not even going to try to what the look is, because I’ts so slight its hard to put a finger on, but Shawn Bradly(the basketball player) has the “typical Mormon” look (at least typical if you ignore the fact he’s 12 feet tall). Do the people who consider Jewish as a seperate race consider Mormon as a seperate one, or how long of seperation do you think it would take.
adam: Cohens are “priests” not Rabbis. And not nessesarily.
IZZY: Altho I see your point, I offer this arguement against it. 1. The children of a Jewish mother are considered Jewish, UNLESS that mother converted to another religion prior to having them. So: All children born of a Jewish mother are Jewish. The (post-conversion) children of a jewish mother who has converted to another religion are NOT Jewish. Thus, ipso facto, someone who converts away from Judaism is no longer Jewish. Yes, they have special “reconversion” privileges, but they are not “Jewish”. They are not accepted in several rites, I know.
Tomndeb, sorry about the word wrap, I have a small monitor, and I hate to lay the dreaded sidescroll on people. However, in this post I am trusting the software, my appologies.
adam yax The link in my previous reply to the Nova story on the lost tribes of Israel contains the information you were looking for about the Lemba, the African tribe which believes that they are descended from Jews, and the story of how the “Cohen” gene was used to help identify them.
Wolfman, I see your point, but you’re missing something - Mormons prosletyze and Jews don’t. A Mormon friend of mine married a Brazilian guy who had converted to Mormonism. Of course, people convert to Judaism too, thereby changing the ethnic background, but at a rate not even close to the Mormons. I have no numbers, just going on common sense.
Danielinthewolvesden,
Why do you keep saying this? It’s not true.
Good point Izzy, it’s not true Daniel. No matter what faith my mother has converted to, I will always be a Jew, and she will always be a Jew. religious observance is not the basis for Jewry, or a qualification to remain Jewish.
And, while I’m here, I’m gonna quote something that I find relative to the discussion at hand…
Just a few more cents 
-Sam
Jewish people are a race because they say they are. That the term “race” has no scientific meaning is beside the point. (See this thread)
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=22903
Calling themselves a race is a way to bind themselves together. More than culture, more than religion. To them it is something in the blood.
It is what CKdext said in his mailbag answer (there is a link about halfway back)to the question “Can a Jew be an Atheist?”. I have also had others explain it that way.
Daniel, please read my reply to that statement. I believe it explains very well the stand of most non-orthodox people.
-Sam
Gawd:Why would you be Jewish if your parents were not, unless YOU converted?
In my mind the active act of converting to another religion, makes you that religion. There are NO “catholic Jews”. There very well could be, “a catholic, of Jewish heritage”.
However, I feel more strongly that YOU are what YOu say you are, that nobody else can say you are a Jew, or a catholic, or Hispanic, or whatever, unless you want to identify your self as belong to that group.
Let me give another hypothetical: Let us say one of the parents, the mother, was black, but both her parents were Jewish (one of those ethiopian Jews). She married a Swedish guy , of 10 generations Lutheran. So, she converts to Lutheranism for the wedding, and no longer considers herself a Jew. They have Kids, who are brought up in the Lutheran Church, baptised & confirmed. Why are the kids “jewish”? They have 0 Semetic blood, and they do not practice Judaism, nor do their parents.
Or say you DO have Semetic blood, you are a Samaritan, whose linage goes back to the 12 tribes. But you family does not practice a religion that the High Priests (or the Chief Rabbis) have considered to be Jewish, for some 3000 years. But you have the same ethnic heritage exactly. Are you “jewish”?