Crafter_Man: *As mentioned, on the weekends I tend to live it up a bit, and may consume upwards to 1500 calories/day. *
Okay, if you consume on average 800 calories five days a week and 1500 calories two days a week, that’s an overall average of 1000 calories per day. That sounds more sustainable, and is also in line with what ChoosyChips considered believable.
Yeah, sorry, I generaly agree with you in this thread, but 850 calories/day is absolutely insane as a stable weight. You’re burning up around 250-350 with the three mile runs, and that leaves you with between 500-600 calories per day. Add in actually recovering from the stress of running, and you’re either losing weight, eating 6,000 calories/day on the weekend, or suffering from a serious eating disorder that, not to be trite, you should seek help with.
You know what I find extremely unattractive? Short-ish skinny men with barely a muscle on their bones. I find scrawniness to be gross. These men should start lifting weights and put on some bulk.
Granted, I wouldn’t be openly RUDE to them. But…sheesh…you’d think they’d do something about being so skinny and horrible. I mean, since there is a way for them to do it and I see no reason in avoiding the gym.
Actually, in an odd way I think we need to commend ninetypercent on his honesty. If I turn on my “introspect-o-meter” in a situation like this, my monitor shows all of the views that have been expressed here, going by in a definite order:
I’m pretty sure that most people who are expressing views #2 or beyond simply don’t want to admit to #1. But I imagine that if some other habit - equally lacking in self-control - accidentally made you really hot-looking we wouldn’t even be having a discussion about it.
But I have to go through this sequence from beginning to end for each event. And, as much as I hate to admit it, even for a single event getting to #5 isn’t the end of it. My mind constantly runs up and down the scale, like a monkey running up and down a tree. All I can really do is try to stand back and let it run around while not letting it take too much of my attention.
Why do fat people bother me? Because they bother me. They are in my way. They take up too much space (ever shared a packed elevator with a 400#er?) They have questionable hygene (and I realize that this is not true for all, but is for the ones I see on a regular basis). They have questionable diets (I am with CrafterMan et.al on this one…unless your health condition causes you to photosynthesize or otherwise create energy from air and light). Why are they treated worse than other people? I can share a bus seat with a Christian, an Asian, a gay person without physical pain.
If it makes the fat people here feel better, I am also bothered by skinny people with poor personal hygene, no self control, lazy attitudes, etc. Some of my best friends are fat, the rest mostly used to be fat. If you are too ill/injured/busy to diet and exercise, well, that is a choice, now isn’t it. You could play with the kids in the park instead of letting them play in the park by themselves. You could learn simple, healthy recipes instead of eating a 1200 calorie salad at a restaraunt. Your love of HagenDas and The Straight Dope is more important than your health.
If you are truly happy with your weight, why do you care what I think about it? I think that people assume that all fat people are unhappy with their weight because all the fat people that are honest with themselves know they would rather be thinner. Fatness keeps you from doing things like riding roller coasters and touring caves and sitting comfortably in theaters and living long lives. If fat people were just as happy, you’d see people saying that they were skinny for a while but they didn’t like the lifestyle so they put on 50 pounds and it was hell with all the eating and sitting around, but they managed it and are proud enough to tell everyone on the Dope.
There are alot of choices we make every day that contriute to weight gain. I agree with whoever said that nobody has a beer thinking that they are taking the first step to weight gain, but they also don’t have the same beer with the thought of taking the first step to alcoholism. I lack self discipline too, I had Hershey’s kisses for lunch…after I had the lunch I brought from home but I am not blaming my recent illness for my potential weight gain when I can lay off the Hersheys. But, I can make the choice to have a smaller dinner knowing that I had a few hundred extra calories for lunch or take a walk after work or know that since I am well within a healthy weight, I can not stress the indulgence and get on with my life.
That all off my chest, I would also like to agree that calling someone names in public is rude and not acceptable. But if I see you every day waddling out of the grocery store eating candy bars by the handful and think “Fatty McFatterson” I don’t think it makes me a bad person.
Well, Crafter did say that he is trying to lose weight on this regimen. Presumably after he takes off the last seven pounds, he’ll increase his calorie intake.
However, his diet and exercise plan still looks awfully draconian. If one’s trying to lose a pound a week, why would they want to do it by eating only 800 calories a day and burning only 1300?
Even if Crafter’s average intake over an entire week is more like 1000 calories/day due to higher consumption on weekends, as I suggested above, to be losing a pound a week he’d have to be burning only 1500 calories a day. Assuming about 400 calories burned during eight hours of sleep, and about 300 calories during the three-mile run as threemae estimated, then he’s got only about 300 calories to get through the entire rest of the day on, generally including a full workday.
That’s about 16 hours of ordinary activity, which probably uses up on average about 100 calories/hour even for mostly sedentary activity. We’re looking at a calorie deficit of well over 1000 calories a day here, which would result in losing over two pounds per week. From everything I’ve heard, that’s generally considered an unhealthily fast rate of weight loss for anybody except the seriously obese. Why not just eat a moderate amount more and continue losing weight, but more slowly?
Well, when it comes to making judgements about people based on their eating habits, maybe you should look to your own habits first. Believe you me, if I were your interviewer, I would make some pretty strong judgements about your presuming that you can routinely do a full morning’s work on only 100 calories, and a full day’s work (plus a three-mile run at lunchtime!) on only 350. I’d prefer to hire people who wouldn’t sacrifice the energy they’re supposed to be devoting to their job for the sake of their personal weight-loss goals.
If it’s okay to assume that fat people automatically “lack self-control” and “might also be lazy”, I see no problem with assuming that “extreme dieters” are somewhat reckless and irresponsible, and don’t care enough about their jobs to nourish themselves adequately for their work.
For me, it was to get it done and be done with it. As I have mentioned earlier, I think a lot of weight loss plans actually fail because of the “Take the weight off slowly over 6 months” approach. I understand that I am contrary to authority there.
You’re correct. My plan is to control my caloric intake and level of exercise to maintain a weight between 140 and 145 lbs.
It’s also possible I am not accounting for everything. In fact, after I wrote my responses yesterday, I realized that I often stop by the 7-11 on the way home from work and buy a 12 oz. container of skim milk (to drink on the drive home). I think it’s around 180 calories.
And you would have a right to hold these opinions. That’s the beauty of freedom.
I wouldn’t care what you thought, but sometimes thoughts spill over into actions, like not getting hired by someone like CrafterMan, or getting “You’re fat” yelled at you when you do try to get out and walk or run. I take you at your word that all you do is think “Fatty McFatterson” but sometimes long-held silent opinions can result in actions that take away something of the target’s life.
As far as not hiring a fat person, how about this:
I have a Bachelor’s from an Ivy, a Master’s from a Ivy-type, fourteen years experience and high opinions of my work from almost everyone I have worked for. I spend my day at work getting everything right, tempering everything I say to be professional, productive and respectful of others, and modelling professional behavior to those who work for me. I take mistakes really hard and try to improve all the time. I am vigilant about hygiene and a casual professional appearance. The only place I let go and not be perfect is when I eat. Sounds OK to me from an employer’s perspective.
After reading this thread and avoiding it, and then remembering other similar threads, I couldn’t help but wonder about a few things, especially when it comes to something that pop up in these discussions regularly: Evolution.
I hear ‘evolution’ tossed about as a reason for why people eat almost with obsession. People have an incredible urge to eat because the stronger the mechanism, the better the chance food will be found, life will be maintained and reproduction will take place (these things mattered at one time).
Well, for all those people that lean on this excuse, I would like to offer my excuse for being repulsed by your behavior:
**I have been programmed by X years of evolution to find your compulsive over eating as a threat to my clan. ** I am just programmed by many years of evolution to respond to your face-stuffing as an inherent threat to me. See, when food was scarce, it was in my best interest to make sure the clan/group/herd/pack/whatever had enough food. I am just reacting based on how I evolved. My people survived because we worked as a group. The more we could control the group and prevent 1 or 2 members from eating all our food, the more likely we could live and reproduce. Groups that didn’t adopt an aggressive approach to sharing and controlling limited food supplies didn’t have the edge. Over many thousands of years, their genes became less common, and fat haters survived.
So, you over eat because you cannot control yourself, and I criticize and attack you because I cannot control myself.
So, that is the answer to the OP: Fat haters are just programmed to hate, just as over eaters are programmed to over eat.
gigi , I do catch myself thinking ‘at least they are out walking/running/whatever’ right after the ‘OMG that’s fat!’ Its impossible for me to say that I never treat people any differently because of their weight, because I may subconsciously and not know. And I have had occasions where I deliberately excluded people from activities based on their weight because it was necessary. If you can’t do what I want to do (ie. cave tour) then I am not going to invite you. I hope that people would understand that I am not being mean, but honest.
and I think that philster may have a point too, that people squandering food was evolutionarily also a threat.
Upon further contemplation, I wonder how much of our attitude is due to advertising. I don’t remember what the ad was for, but there used to be one where a fat woman was crying because she couldn’t take her kids to the park. I would say that most people know someone who is fat and sad or fat and mean or fat and filthy and that experience is reinforced by media and becomes accepted. I feel sorry for fat people because I feel that they don’t understand what damage they are really doing to themselves or don’t understand how to remedy their situation. But they probably don’t want me to do that either. I applaud people who have lost a bunch of weight…because it really makes a positive difference in every aspect of their lives.
But I still don’t condone making fun of fat people ever…unless they are really OK with it…which I am not sure anyone really is.
Philster: * I am just programmed by many years of evolution to respond to your face-stuffing as an inherent threat to me. See, when food was scarce, it was in my best interest to make sure the clan/group/herd/pack/whatever had enough food. I am just reacting based on how I evolved. My people survived because we worked as a group. The more we could control the group and prevent 1 or 2 members from eating all our food, the more likely we could live and reproduce.*
xbuckeye: and I think that philster may have a point too, that people squandering food was evolutionarily also a threat.
It is an interesting point, and there may actually be something in it. However, we should note that the exact same argument can also be applied to resentment and denigration of rich people. If human beings really did evolve to hate and attack “resource hogs”, then it is just as valid to dislike and disparage people for overconsumption of other resources besides food.
So all you folks who think it’s natural and justifiable to look down on fat people, I don’t want to hear any more whining from you about the unfairness of “class warfare” or “class envy” or “prejudice against the rich”. If hating resource hogs is okay, then we should hate them all equally. 
Interesting. A group of my friends go on an annual trek up a small mountain nearby and after another such outing that I hated, the coordinator obviously excluded me from the invite (IOW invited everyone else in the room but me, in front of me). I could understand it (he wanted to spare me embarrassment) but at the same time it’s nice to be invited and turn it down graciously because you know your own limits. Regardless of weight you wouldn’t want to be a drag on anyone else’s good time.
BTW, Even if I were very thin I wouldn’t want to be in a cave because it’s scary, so don’t make any assumptions!
That was an ad for a diet drug which certainly would be targeted to prey on fat people’s (and people who perceive themselves as fat) bad feelings about themselves. Another stereotype is the jolly fat person; often fat people can’t afford to be mean because they know that will lead to “Fat bitch”, and they need to present themselves as unfazed by their “problem” and capable of leading a good life.
Bottom line for me is, I know I am addicted to food and that I eat compulsively for a number of emotional reasons. That is a reason I am fat, not an excuse, because it isn’t a forgone conclusion that I can do nothing about an addiction. But when I think about giving up food, I know there is nothing else that makes me that high, and it’s hard to go through life without a high. Besides, when I am at a very comfortable weight for me I am still considered fat so I can’t worry too much about opinions.
I don’t blame other people, the media, my metabolism, etc. I don’t comment on other people’s weight (thin or heavy or “normal”), I don’t say I hate thin people, I don’t use the word “skinny” because it is pejorative. I don’t concern myself with others’ eating patterns be they ordered or disordered because I have my own issues. If someone else feels happy because they have lost weight or are exercising, I am happy for them. I don’t ask others to sympathize with me, except fellow OA people who understand what compulsive eating means.
I just ask for the same respect because I am an ethical, hardworking person who just tries to make her way in the world.
don’t worrykimstu hate Ritchie Rich’s too, but don’t see many of them on the bus to WalMart
And gigi I really didn’t mean anything by the cave thing other than it is a place with a definite size limit, (50" circumference IIRC) but I had the class to make sure that there wasn’t a big show of inviting everyone else in the room. That is poor manners no matter who is involved. The person we decided to exclude didn’t even know we went until we were back and could be like ‘oh, we just decided to go poke around in a cave, no biggie’ Your post is well-written and a beautiful attitude to have.
You’ve got it from me, I really wish that I could pretend not to notice physical appearance, but I find that to do that you have to keep your eyes closed…and then I run into things. If I did say or imply that I hate fat people, then I was in error. I meant to say that I am uncomfortable being imposed upon by fat people, ie on an elevator, plane, etc. and if you catch me on a bad day, I might not do the best at hiding my feelings. Again, I do not condone treating people differently because of their weight.
Bravo!
I think we would be friends. 
Actually, evolution favors those who *gain * weight (i.e. store calories as a hedge against leaner times). Prior to the current era, the only ones who were able to be fat were those who were especially good hunters, gatherers, or were allied with same. It’s an evolutionary advantage that older people retain weight more than the young, even with the same intake and output. Did you ever see one of the ancient “venus” statues of primitive fertility goddesses? Fat, fat, rolls of fat. A fat woman would for sure have the stamina to bear children and survive. A thin one might be sick, injured, or immature.
Obviously the problem is that our nature has evolved to deal with an environment where you couldn’t get a nice marbled steak just by reaching into a box in the next room, or obtain thousands of calories without breaking a sweat.
I have been following this thread since post 26, and I have to say, no wonder everyone here is so fat, if they consume (or rather, quote) entire multi-paragraph matterial in a single serving.
yeah, and when I first tried to catch up with it, it took me half a day of reading (partially due to low attention span). I think we should all vow to spend as much time excercising as on the 'Dope and all our weight problems would be solved!
I gotta get out of here!
I’m overweight at 5’9.5" and fluctuating between 180-200 lbs. (Yes, I do fluctuate that much, but my thyroid, blood pressure, etc. is normal. A 5 lb. difference on me could simply mean the difference between whether I’ve used the bathroom in the morning before I weighed myself.) I work part-time while going to school full-time, and I don’t have much willpower to work out after I’ve been standing on my feet in the same place all day. (Normally my ankles, back and knees will hurt because, well, we’re not designed to stand up in the same place all the time.) I walk to campus on a regular basis, which is about a 20-40 minute walk, depending upon where on campus I have to go. I lose weight in the winter, and gain weight in the summer. The temperature difference is a large factor, for, although I can adapt readily to cold weather, it’s much harder for me to adjust to warm weather and not feel wilty, irritable, and have my asthma act up. For me, I can lose the weight, but it’s difficult because I have to exercise a lot more than I do now to notice any substantial results. Additionally, a change in climate definitely makes a difference for me; in all my experience, when it is colder outside and the temperatures don’t go above 70 degrees, I lose weight and feel better. In relation to this, I’m chemically sensitive; consuming foods that are heavily processed don’t help, and the hormones in foods do affect me negatively weight-wise. At the wages I’m being paid, there is no way I can afford to eat organically and still get the right nutrition for my body.
At one point in time in my life I had a drastic weight loss. This was my freshman year of college. I was broke, couldn’t get a job, and was eating ramen/pasta, eggs, and peas for a good portion of the time. I was also partying a lot, and was amazed at how little tolerance for alcohol I had on my unfortunate eating regimen. I went from weighing 206 (my highest weight) to a sickly-looking 171. When I came home for spring break, my mom looked so worried for me, but couldn’t help me out financially because she was unemployed at the time. Even at my lightest weight at my full height, I didn’t have enough muscle mass, I was a little flabby around my midsection, and I was still above the higest margin for the BMI for my height. In my current situation, I have a lot of roadblocks to being able to be at the size that I want to be.
My struggles with weight, however, do lead to a loathing of people who lump me in the “fat” category. Unfortunately, this is especially pointed at those who are doing it as some form of solidarity. I do recognize it as being prejudiced, but at the same time, I honestly don’t think that being the weight ratio that I am is comparable to someone who’s morbidly obese. I do recognize, however, that there are underlying issues for anyone’s weight that can’t be seen on the surface.
This thread is still around?? Man oh man.
If it was a skinny woman I would have included the line “that skinny little bitch”. If it was a guy in glasses I would have written “four eyed fucker”. If it was a teen that smelled like pork I would have said “teenaged pork smelling fucknut”
It was a pit thread. Geeesh.