I do (truly) appreciate you coming in and trying to deal with the points raised - would you mind letting us know if we can expect to see any of the admins or even Ed give an explanation here? As you say, you were not personally involved and it is not fair to ask you to absorb the heat on their behalf.
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat;11390978Of course it is. Where were you raised?
.[/QUOTE]
And asking where I was raised isn’t rude?
:dubious:
Huh.
So, “Bullshit” is rude. Then you’ll have to clue in tomndeb from when they called a Fenris post “bullshit”.
Seriously. I admitted that I wouldn’t use the term in front of the clergy, or in several other venues (in front of my sisters grandchildren for example), but on this board?
Damned good man, damned good.
Agreed.
Going out of order:
- Fair enough and that’s some damned leet search skillz G. I could NOT find that column to save my butt. I concede this point.
That said.
-
I agree given that and your legal knowledge that John was wrong on the copyright issue. But it was still the rules at the time of Seven’s post. It’s not obvious on the face of it that John was wrong. Since it wasn’t self-evident, it’s hardly fair to blame Seven for not knowing that piece of law given that a mod (admin? What was John?) specifically ok’d it.
-
Thanks. I really appreciate the reply.
I said the same thing in the four part copyright staff report I did with ascenray, but in this case I don’t think I could justify citing myself. 
In any event, we seem to agree that fair use covers most cases in which the excerpt is a single sentence.
That said.
While I admire InvisibleWombat’s efforts here, I don’t think the rule (if there is one) on quoting PMs and emails was based on copyright. I took some heat for posting part of an email *from *a staff member to a poster a while back, and even though I thought I was justified in doing it at the time, I later apologized to the poster. At the time of that incident, several board members were certain posting emails (even a single sentence) was not ok because it violated the recipient’s privacy. And that’s what I take to be the basis for the rule. All of this, of course, proves nothing and I agree the rule on this is not clear.
No problem.
regarding posting “bullshit” being rude :
In this thread on page three, post 148, tomndeb quotes an entire post and calls it “bullshit”. Another poster suggests to him that maybe that was inappropriate, and he responds on the next page, in post 152
So, I was following a mod’s action as to proper posting behavior.
The problem is, you are expecting the rules to be written on paper with ink and put in a place where coffee won’t be spilled on them. Instead, it is more like they are written in the sand at the tideline each day, with variations as to placement and content because the writer of the day is going by memory. The rules, such as they are, aren’t up to date, and the mods appear to be winging it.
No, I’m not expecting it to be written on paper blah blah blah. But if a mod asserts “this is a rule” they’d better be able to back it up better than (essentially) ‘I pulled it out of my ass’
That’s what I was getting at. It’s very simple. A member shouldn’t have to post/read here every single day in order to be able to have a hope of keeping up with the changes in rules. And for the record, I think had Seven forwarded the PMs to Ed, Ed would have told him something like “If you don’t like it, leave, I’m on the side of my admin, and if she says you are this way, you must be this way!!!11”
Ugh, that’s what I get for having too many windows open to reply to. I didn’t mean to say it to Really Not All That Bright. For whatever reason (reading too fast for my dizzy brain) I thought someone else made the comment that caused my reaction. I apologize to Really Not All That Bright.
BTW this comment wins the thread for me:
People, I say this in all sincerity:
There are many decaffeinated brands that are just as tasty as the real thing.
Just so you know, I noticed AFTER I posted my last exchange with you that Invisible Wombat told us to stop the insults. So I have. I apologize if your little tiny feelings were hurt.
I also apologize to IW for insulting in this fora.
The copout was exactly that you didn’t address her PM. Strictly speaking, I’d agree that it isn’t appropriate to use the standard board warning system against Tuba here, so strictly speaking, you did address what he said. But in responding so narrowly, you failed to address the real point: this isn’t an appropriate temperament for a community administrator to be exhibiting and it is deeply concerning that it doesn’t seem to give her pause. So it feels like you and the other mods/admins are playing defense and not genuinely responding to the community’s frustrations. I don’t blame you for that; I’m just trying to explain some of the hostile tone these threads generate. People are latching onto your posts and expecting full explanations from you because you’re the only mod responding, so when you don’t provide, it can feel shallow.
Tuba and other administrators and mods should be expected to maintain a higher standard than “don’t break the rules.” These are the people who make and enforce the rules, and they are presumably formulating those rules in order to codify a vision of what kind of behavior they consider desirable in a community setting, insofar as it is possible to do so.
So while Tuba may not have been breaking any rules, I would assert that what she did was unambiguously unwise. As administrator, that should be her first concern; the subject of permissibility is only useful as an extension of encouraging members to coexist agreeably. How can she rightfully judge which rules properly uphold that goal when she doesn’t seem to promote it herself?
And I’m not condemning her for being mean or judgmental or whatever. We’re all human. It’s more bothersome that she doesn’t seem interested in even participating in the dialogue. That’s part of the job description.
Why are these kinds of decisions made behind closed doors anyway? I have a hard time seeing the benefit. I could understand a read-only staff forum, but hiding it completely just encourages people to make up conspiracy theories.
If we were given to custom titles around here, this would be the most fitting ever.
And that was one DAMN good movie.
Have some popcorn?
Tuba has had the female equivalent of a hardon for the snarkboards for years. I’m quite positive that she banned seven on the spur of the moment and things are progressing as usual…backpedal and try to justify the unjustifiable.
Kazowie!
I do not know. We are (obviously) talking about this, but I can’t speak for Ed or the admins. Sorry I don’t have anything more to tell you.
No. I won’t try again.
I will say this one last time because I’m sick and tired of repeating it: I did not ever use copyright as a defense for the banning. I have not defended the banning at all. I made it clear when I answered the question that I wasn’t talking about Seven when I said that.
My thought process started with two facts:
(1) The Chicago Reader (which owns SDMB and is, in turn, owned by Creative Loafing) is very concerned about copyrights, thus this board has rules against copyright violation.
(2) I have been a freelance writer for over 20 years, and I’ve dealt with many, many editors in the course of producing over 20 books and hundreds of articles. It has been made clear to me by multiple editors and publishers that, for copyright reasons, I was forbidden to reprint private personal correspondence without the permission of the original author (unless the author’s dead or all the other legal caveats).
Putting (1) and (2) together, it does not seem at all “stupid” or “silly” to say that people shouldn’t post PMs or private emails on the SDMB.
That said, I really see no reason to continue arguing about it, since there isn’t a specific rule against it. See these two posts:
I don’t know what more you want from me. I made a mistake. I admitted it. I apologize. I’d sacrifice a goat, but I don’t have any left, and none of the stores around here sell sackcloth.
TubaDiva sent an email while I wasn’t around concerning an issue I hadn’t been involved in, and it’s a copout for me not to jump in and criticize her for it? Nope. Not falling in that trap, Rolken.
Let it go, wring.
I (me, personally) thought it was impolite and asked you calmly to tone it down. That’s all. No mod action or anything. It’s over. (Hopefully) no hard feeling either way.
It has now been around 24 hours since Seven was banned. Why hasn’t an administrator come forward to explain all this? Gaudere, Lynn, and Tuba have all been online since this nonsense started.