This is a serious question, I’d rather not evolve it into a gun control debate.
But, I’m confused as to why a security officer guarding the Illinois State Capitol would be unarmed?
Here in Wisconsin the Capitol Police are armed to the teeth. In fact, WCP are the highest law enforcement authority in the entire state.
Let’s face it, there are nut jobs out there who would like to kill law makers in the capitol.
Can someone shed some light as to why in Illinois the person in charge of protecting important people would be rendered useless? What’s going on down there?
Armed guards cost more money than unarmed guards. They require additional equipment, training time, range facilities, background checks, insurance costs and higher pay.
It sounds like the legislators made a deliberate decision, now being reconsidered, that they didn’t want armed guards separating the people’s representatives from the people. It really wasn’t all that long ago that anyone could wander freely around the U.S. Capitol and its office buildings, and out-of-town tourists would pop into their Congressman’s office just to say hello. Those times are gone forever, but it just seems like we’ve lost so much.
But we’re talking about an individual who was protecting important property, and possibly (inferrd from the story) the Governor. It seems unusual to me that the Governor would be protected by an unarmed guard. I would have thought that the Ill. State Police, or Secretary of State Police would be in charge of security there.
You can “pop into” a State Senator/Assembly Reps office here. But the cops are still armed. Maybe more crazy shit has happened in our capitol than down in the flatlands.
The guards are not only there to shoot down nutjobs running amuck inside the building. I don’t know about that particular Capitol, but many parliament buildings are open for groups of tourists and citizens to visit, and probably this one as well as it’s described as being unusually open. The guard might have been there to tell visitors which doors they may pass, and which ones not. You don’t need a gun to do that kind of security.
I guess another question for me to ask is, is there any steady police presence at the Ill. Capitol? I find it hard to believe that the
Governor and other dignitaries have only unarmed protection.
I work near the IL State Capitol, and no, the only police presence there is an (unarmed) guard sitting just inside the entrance, and a few more strolling about inside. Bear in mind, the legislature is not in session, and the Guv doesn’t much like to hang out here at the best of times. When it is in session, the police presence steps up a bit, but to get in, if you have a state ID badge, just show it to the guards, or a photo ID and sign in if you are not an employee. No frisking, nothing.
The idea here was “open and honest” government – so the people could have access to their representatives, so that’s why no metal detectors, etc. Frankly, a metal detector would not have done any good yesterday, due to the circumstances of this particular incident.
Most of the state buildings here are pretty similair: unarmed guards, no metal detectors. The only ones with detectors that I am aware of off-hand are courthouses, but again, this crime would not have been prevented with a metal detector.
The Capitol in Madison is completely open. No metal detectors. One can walk to their State Rep/Senators office, or into a committee hearing. But security is provided by armed police patroling the grounds. There are always protestors and kooks coming around. And bomb threats on a regular basis.
I think this incident makes it clear that the guard should have been armed.
The wrong guy ended up dead.
Who protects the Gov.? Does he have other body guards other than an unarmed security officer? I though the State Police or the Secretary of State Police was in charge at their Capitol.
The governor’s house in Chicago is a block and a half from mine. There’s a state trooper in a squad parked outside 24 hours a day, whether the governor is there or not. The trooper is armed. It is my understanding that the governor is generally accompanied on his travels by another set of troopers.
WHen I went to dinner at the Governor’s mansion here in Illinois, I saw no sign of armed guards. That was years ago though. Why should they be needed though? Yes, guards are needed to make sure that vandals don’t run amok, but as far as I can tell there are not many people who want to kill the state legislators. It is far easier to run against them or smear them during a campaign.
What exactly would have an armed guard done in the situation this week?
tygre and I happened to visit the Illinois State Capitol building three weeks ago (and we were just by there over the weekend). Although I haven’t been able to see from the news exactly what happened, it appears that the suspect pulled up to a reserved parking lot on the right-hand side of the building, walked up to the guard, and opened fire. He never actually entered the building, so metal detectors would not have been useful.
As for the guard being armed, well, it might have been helpful. Witnesses appear to be saying that shots were fired before anyone realized the suspect was armed. The set-up at that entrance to the Capitol is not very secure: a guard sits at a table next to a sign-in book. If the guard was distracted with signing in a visitor, the suspect could have opened fire before the guard even saw him.
I know this is GQ, and it is a rather morbid subject to discuss something like this I suppose, but I haven’t mentioned it on the Dope before: tygre and I have been dating for the last six months or so. Just thought I’d mention it here.
The lack of armed security in the Illinois State Capitol is quite typical. Between 1995 and 2002, I have walked into about 45 different state Capitol buildings. Usually, getting inside is about as easy, security-wise, as walking into a public library. I don’t recall ever passing through a metal detector (could have happened once or twice), and I may have had my backpack searched once or twice for ten seconds. On most occasions, I have been carrying a backpack with a camera bag inside, and a tripod. Usually, it’s just a matter of finding the open door (which is often not the obvious one at the top of the stairs), saying hi to the docent or security guard, asking if it’s OK to use my tripod, and walking right in.
I have never really looked to see if the guards are armed. I have entered many capitols without seeing anyone at all; most of them are open on Saturdays, and some even on Sundays, to allow visitors access to exhibits or just to let people see the buildings themselves, which are often very interesting architecturally.
Duke– Is the prosthetic leg of General Santa Anna still on display near the rotunda?
Um…shoot back?
I talked to a couple of buddies of mine today at the WI. Capitol Police, and each of them were stunned to learn the security whom protects the Capitol and the VIP’s inside were unarmed.
I know our Capitol is not the only one with armed officers. Somebody must think it’s a wise idea.
That assumes he had time to do so; from this article it sounds like the guard collapsed right after being shot.
The article also mentions the shooter earlier in the day trying to get an assault rifle and shooting in the shop. Unfortunately, the shop owner merely shot his own son in the process, and not this guy.
I’m not saying there’s no reason to arm them, but it sounds like guns or metal detectors probably wouldn’t have helped much in this incident.
It’s ridiculously easy to get into the Illinois State Capitol. I’ve done it several times in my life. You just walk on in… no one gives you as much as a glance. I’ve walked right into the Senate/House chambers when they weren’t in session. I just plopped down in a chair and listened to the sound the chandell… the chandel… the lamps make when the breeze from the air conditioning causes the little crystals to rub against each other.
Well, actually, you can waltz right in through the main (east) entrance. The north entrance is where the guard guy got shot (there’s more security presence there, and on the south entrance, because those entrances lead directly to legislators’ offices).
One thing to keep in mind is that the security forces at most State of Illinois buildings are third-party security guards (you know, like Joe’s Security Company), who are unarmed and poorly trained. I’m pretty sure the victim of Monday’s shooting was one of those guys.
The governor’s office in the capitol has bulletproof glass and a couple of armed police officers there, and the governor’s mansion has both uniformed and plainclothes armed officers walking around. All of that is a little redundant, of course, as our governor refuses to believe that the capital of Illinois isn’t Chicago, and he spends precious little time here.
A local radio station the other day interviewed the chief of the Capitol police in Jefferson City, Missouri. He made it quite clear that if this incident had happened in the Show-Me State, the guy would have been shot dead by three body-armor-wearing guards as soon as he raised his gun.
He is no more important than any other citizen of Illinois.
Anyways, I always thought that in states/countries with tight gun control laws, like Illinois, where the citizens can’t have/don’t need guns for self defense, that the guards, even the police shouldnt need guns either. It doesn’t sound strange to me at all.
E.g., in England, where almost no citizen can have a handgun, most of the police there dont carry guns either.
The government should lead by example, if the governor of Illinois says that people dont need guns for self defense, then his own guards should not have/carry guns either - else you wouldnt believe him.
