Why, yes, I would like an extra helping of disillusionment today.

The BBQ Pit
21

Whether you intended it to be proscriptive or not, the excerpt from your OP below indicates what you think the teacher ‘deserves’, not just your feelings about it.

I also query your reasoning here:

Without wanting to appear to be too cynical, so-called ‘sexual assault’ claims are VERY profitable for the plaintiff. It may be possible that she is ‘cashing-in’ on her experience, knowing that the courts will immediately award damages despite her (possible) complicity in the relationship. [I have no details, just offering another perspective here btw]
And of course the school district would HAVE to fire him, otherwise they too could be held liable for responsibility by tacitly ‘defending’ him. Sexual assault is a bloody minefield for all parties, and I think your appraisal of the situation is somewhat naive.
Your ‘explanation’ does not reassure me that he is worthy of the contempt you direct towards him.

22

To throw in another viewpoint here kambuckta, “sexual assault” prosecutions often get reduced to what can be proven in court and the chances of gaining a conviction on a particular charge - the charges laid (if any) are not always indicative of what actually occured, but often reflect which charges the prosecution thinks they can make stick.

For some reason, we seem to expect those who prey on children to be recognisable by sight and be identifiable as nasty people. If only that were the case, far less children would be at risk.

23

I agree totally reprise , but I wonder whether those factors are applicable here? ANY sexual contact between a teacher and a student is illegal, and as far as the courts are concerned, there would be NO mitigating circumstances or defence to his actions. There would be no need for the prosecution to reduce or modify the charges whatsoever.

24

Guin, speaking as someone who would love to be an education major and wants to be a grade school teacher about as much as he wants to continue posting on this board, you don’t universally (meaning everywhere in this country) need a different degree to teach high school as opposed to grade school. A guy I know has a degree in nuclear physics from Cornell and teaches high school math. Teaching certificate (which are really not that hard to come by … I took part of a sample test a year or so ago and did pretty decny deste not having taken even half of my colleg reqs. A lot of it is recognizing differences in learning styles, and how to pick up on kids who aren’t getting as much enrichment at home) you almost always need, but if there were a requirement across the country to have a specific degree in “high school education” or something similar, there’d be a LOT fewer teachers.

::will always imagine Guin with that lovely brown hair. Blond … fneh:)::

25

Kambuckta snuck in there and raised a little, annoying nitpick.

If the student and teacher are married…

I know it’s pretty clear that they weren’t in the OP, but still.

::runs away::

26

this is slightly off topic but I feel that the legal age of consent for both males and females should be no more than 15 as opposed to the current ages ranging from 16 to 18. (Link)

I am basing this on:
1- statistics: the average age for first time sex is 16 for americans (Link2) and since girls usually have sex sooner than boys, I believe that their average age is closer to 15.

2- personal experience: I know at least 2 people who had relationships involving sex with 14-15 years old girls with their explicit and full consent without any harmful impact on the girls.

for these reasons, I do not think it is any worse to rape a 15 years old girl than an 18 years old one.

and yes, rape is wrong. duh!

27

You’re absolutely correct **Gozu ** …you ARE right off topic.
The age of consent has nothing to do with this issue…it would technically not matter whether the student was a 34 yr old post-grad who was in a sexual r’ship with her 37 yr old lecturer. According to the ‘law’ the liason is still unethical, and probably illegal, and will be especially so if the student lays charges.

28

i’m afraid you didn’t understand the purpose of my post:

[q]I do not think it is any worse to rape a 15 years old girl than an 18 years old one.[/q]

everything i said before that was just to justify that claim.

i just didn’t want the age of the presumed victim (which popped up in this thread)to influence the posters about this whole issue. of course, the age difference in this particular case (over 10 years) cannot be ignored and adds up against him. and no, professor-student relationships should not be tolerated.

29

kambukta, the reason I think it’s so likely that alleged sexual assault was more than just some unwise bottom patting or consensual behavior is because:

  • an administration that has a reputation of moving slowly on current allegations (another teacher who made wildly sexually harrassing comments about female students in front of other students was offered early retirement. No punative actions were taken even though there were ample witnesses.)

  • the union, which is obligated to go to bat for all of its members regardless of what they’ve done, didn’t even blink an eye.

  • by firing him immediately, the school district opened itself up to a lawsuit at least as large as any that might be posed by the alleged victim.

  • after twenty five years, a woman who is married and has children seems pretty unlikely to me to be bringing exaggerated, off-base, or opportunistic claims of sexual assault. Maybe she is a crackpot. Maybe she was a wildly sexual adolescent who seduced her English teacher. Maybe. But I doubt it, especially in light of the other context, including that she has not filed suit against him or the school district.

IF he did sexually assault her, and it was what the majority of us agree is sexual assault, then I stand by everything I said while my stomach was turning with disgust, betrayal, and anger. IF there were extenuating circumstances, if it was consensual, if the claims are not legitimate, then I will modify my sentiments accordingly.

It just seems as though we’re on other sides of our own cynicism. I think it’s more likely that a charasmatic, knowledgeable, powerful teacher took advantage of and hurt a student. You think it’s more likely that his behavior was not culpable and that his accuser is acting from less than noble motive.

30

:: potential huge hijack, sorry, but I have to say something here ::

Unasked-for touching is almost always problematic. However, I get rather annoyed (possibly unjustifiably) when I hear about the police (or, far worse, the lawyers) getting called in on a butt-pincher.

See, to me it seems to give the inference that a woman is somehow unable to take care of herself–or that it is somehow unseemly for her to do so. That she feels she must contact the police instead of grabbing the asshole’s hand and telling him that if he does that again, he’s getting kicked in the fucking balls. That perhaps she thinks it’s unlady-like to do so, or that it could be construed as assault (although I would think that, with the provoking touch and a fair warning, following through on that threat shouldn’t be illegal…self-defense and all that).

See, if someone ever did that to me, I wouldn’t bother with the police. I’d just tell him to quit it. If he followed through, I’d feel perfectly all right kicking him/making a scene/slapping him/whatever. I find it kind of odd that other women feel that they can’t do the same, that they can’t get out of a bad situation without the police’s help, and that (worst of all) some of them take it for years and years, then come up with a lawsuit. Sheesh…just bitchslap him already!

(Note that this applies to things in the “extremely rude annoyance” realm, like ass-slapping, butt-pinching, or hands-in-unwanted-but-not-totally-gross places. Anything else is definately a criminal offense IMHO and should be reported to the police).

. . .as for the teacher, I’m saddened by hearing this. I like to think the best of teachers, and, as a result, my first thought is “is the student lying?” She probably isn’t, though. Maybe you should try to think about the teacher’s good qualities; how he helped you, how he taught well. His actions with this student were no doubt a serious transgression, but they don’t change all that he showed you and all that he helped you with. He’s not an evil-incarnate man. He’s just a man who made one fucking huge mistake.

31

Actually this reminds me of a funny story.

I was working at a spensers gifts a long time ago. I was restocking on the top shelves so I had this huge ass ladder in my hand. Well someone asked me a question and turned to answer then BEFORE I stopped moving.

Yup.

Smacked someone in the ass. Or more accurately I poked a girl in the ass.

WIth just one of the feet, RIGHT between the cheeks, so to speak. She whirled around and looked like she was going rip someone a new asshole.

And saw me talking to someone else… a SOLID 7 feet away from her holding this HUGE ass ladder (it was around 12 feet).

That was pretty funny.

32

Dude, it’s blond STREAKS. STREAKS. Or striped, I suppose.

33

I always knew you were a tiger at heart…

Rrrawr!

34

Yep, the lady or the tiger-that’s me!