Way, way back, when so many kids were sticking flowers in their hair and running away to San Francisco. Knew a guy who was active in the free clinic stuff, trying to cope with the massive flow. Who wondered why so many more girls than boys. Well, maybe now we know. For the boys, it was running to something, free love, rock 'n roll. For the girls, running from something.
Daddy. Uncle Fred.
Mild is “you wanna fool around?”. Grabbing and holding down is NOT mild or “persuasion”.
It seems to me that what is happening with women in this country right now is that many, many, many of us are having flashbacks and suffering real trauma because of the treatment of Blasey Ford.
It’s obvious that many men, especially conservative men, don’t get it and don’t want to get it so they never will. It’s depressing.
Check your closet for shoes appropriate for ass-kicking. Put 'em on.
Do you think memories of exact dialogue and critical actions are perfect after 35 years? By either party? You’re putting an awful lot of weight on something that may be marginally accurate.
Thank you for your polite and well-reasoned response. Unfortunately, this thread is indeed about it. What do you think started this argument, the man in the moon? I suggested that in that particular case, there may be extenuating and unknown circumstances due to many factors; someone who “did not report” may be subject to the same.
The OP seems to disagree with your assessment that this thread is about you and your thoughts about Kavanaugh.
Kavanaugh’s wasn’t the first case an accusation’s first dismissal is “oh yeah, so why didn’t she report it back then?” There have even been cases where people have said that even though the attack had in fact been reported; in cases where multiple people had reported multiple attacks. It’s merely a case that’s now news, but the argument is about as old as “oh yeah? So what was she wearing?”
Because I was afraid of what he’d do if I told anyone.
So you don’t want to consider WHY someone may not have reported? Do you think collecting anecdotes is the same as collecting data? Or do you just want short stories with no validity so you have an excuse to weep, but not a reason?
Which time?
The time a neighbor’s father hoisted me onto his lap and fondled my genitals? I was about 5-6 years old. I reported. My parents told me, “Stay away from that man.”
The time a Salt Lake City police officer, a neighbor, offered to take me on a ride-along, then spent the entire evening grabbing at my breasts and genital area? I was 12 years old. I stuck as close to the guy’s partner as I could to avoid the horrible touching, and his partner was clearly aware of what was happening yet did nothing affirmative to protect me. Good Mormons. Still, I reported. My parents told me, “He’s a cop. There’s nothing we can do.”
The time I drank too much at a party, went to a private bedroom alone to sleep it off and awoke with my clothing half off from the drunk who was attempting to rape me and my friend physically pulling the guy off me so we could escape? I was 13 and in foster care. By then I had learned: Don’t bother to report.
The time my father’s closest (married) friend stalked me at high school because he had a crush on me and played grab-ass every chance he got? I was 14, and I reported. It ruined the friendship between my dad and this man, but that was the extent of the consequences for his sexual assault.
The time a drunken fellow knocked on my door in the middle of the night looking for his friend, whose girlfriend was my former roommate? I was 21 and made the stupid mistake of opening the door. He pushed his way in and clearly had rape on his mind. Grabbed my arm and left bruises. Tried to kiss me. I didn’t know this guy from anyone. I was so angry, I backed him down and got him out, then fell apart. Didn’t report. I mean, I hadn’t been actually raped in my own home in the middle of the night, had I? I knew the drill by now.
I’m in my early 60s now, and as every person who has posted a story in this thread can attest, you never, ever forget.
The replies from those who were afraid … I’m sorry if the thread is causing you more pain.
Thank you. Sigh
Musicat, get the fuck out of here, or shut up and listen.
No, just shut up, accept that not everything thing in the world is about you and your fucking opinion, and listen to people.
We are not talking about you, we are not talking about Kavanaugh, we are not talking about your opinion of Kavanaugh.
If you want to tell us why you did not report it when you were sexually assaulted, or what happened when you did, fine. Otherwise, shut up and listen.
Stop. Listen. Think.
And, really, shut up.
[Anybody want to take a bet that Musicat triples down now?]
When I was in college (early 1970s) I attended a one-evening seminar on self-defense for women. The question came up: If you were unfortunate to be raped, should you report it? The consensus was No.
Yes, you might be helping other women by keeping a monster off the streets, but really none of us believed that would be the result. The strong likelihood was that the crime wouldn’t really be investigated, on the assumption that “you must have been asking for it.”. And if they actually caught the creep, you’d have to go to court to be blamed for the attack and watch the criminal go free.
It was suggested to us that we might report to the police that he exposed himself. That would probably be investigated, because while rapists were just red-blooded American men, weenie-waggers were PERVERTS.
My own story is much less harrowing that what others have reported here – I was pushed against the wall while he forced his tongue into my mouth. He might have done more, but the Nurse Supervisor came back into the room. That was one of the few times I understood I was being assaulted (other times were instances where I was on a date – I fought the guy off – but always felt the attack was something I should have expected). It never occurred to me to report it.
This thread is really sad- in the literal sense. I don’t know why it was placed in the Pit in the first place, swearing isn’t limited to the Pit. I think having it here is just asking for it to be trolled.
Neither am I. I am talking about how perceptions can be mistaken and need to be taken accordingly.
…You do know we can read what you wrote, right?
We can see your first post, which has absolutely nothing to do with finding out why sexual abuse victims don’t report their abuse. We can see you bringing up Kavinaugh and explaining how he probably didn’t attempt to rape Ford.
So fuck off trying to convince anyone that you’re remotely interested in reasons why victims may not report their rape or sexual assault. You’re here to argue that a particular rape didn’t happen.
And this post is you trying to silence them, pretending their stories don’t matter. You’re saying the one reason this thread actually exists doesn’t matter. Of fucking course hearing “anecdotes” from real people for why they didn’t report tells us why real people didn’t report!
On preview, I see you continuing this. We can see your post. It was not about why victims don’treport when they are raped or sexually assaulted. It was about Kavinaugh, and an opinion for why he didn’t actually commit rape.
We can see what you wrote. Stop pulling a Trump and trying to lie about it.
A “mild attempt at sexual persuasion” is putting a hand on a girl’s breast uninvited, or annoyingly nagging at her that “everybody’s doing it”. Two older boys cornering a younger girl in a room and attempting to force her to disrobe, groping at her, and covering her mouth is unambiguously sexual and physical assault. There is no confusion on this point in law or in the mind of any rational person.
As for the “Memory isn’t perfect and confabulation abounds,” while we cannot know with any certainty what occurred at a party thirty-odd years ago, the fact is that Ford has made some very clear statements about what she remembers having occurred (even if some ancillary details of the party have been lost in memory), while Kavanaugh categorically denies this or any other assault having taken place. Ford has a prior history having discussed salient issues of the assault with a therapist several years prior to Kavanaugh even being suggested for nomination and passed a polygraph test (for what that is worth) on questions pertaining to the issue. Kavanaugh, on the other hand, denies the reputation for underaged drinking, partying, and misogyny even though friend and partner in the alleged assault, Mark Judge has written autobiographically about those behaviors in his peer group contemporaneous to the assault even though he does not mention Kavanaugh specifically. So in terms of credibility, Ford would seem to have a better basis for her claims that Kavanaugh’s denial.
Many people have made the claim that the allegations, lacking as they do any eyewitness testimony, physical evidence, or reporting at the time of the assault, do not meet the standard for criminal prosecution, which is absolutely true. No prosecutor would ever go to trial on the basis of this say-so story without supporting evidence or testimony. But this issue isn’t about conviction in a court of law; it is about the reputation of a person seeking lifetime appointment to the highest court of the land, and his integrity, acumen, and impartiality. In hearings, Kavanaugh has already demonstrated a reluctance to answer direct questions with clear, unambiguous answers. He is denying having partaken in the party behavior of his teenage cohort, a claim exactly no reasonable person actually believes to be true. As Heraclitus said, “Character is destiny”, and soneone on the Supreme Court should be a person of the highest character regardless of their political leanings, which Kavanaugh does not give the impression of being.
There are multiple reasons to question Kavanaugh’s fitness to be appointed to the Supreme Court notwithstanding that his judicial record and history of law clerk hiring practices already make him of dubious qualification for the court. There is certainly reason to delay a vote and allow Ford’s testimony to be heard without the shitty depreciation characteristic of the Anita Hill hearings in 1991 (e.g. “Are you a scorned woman?”) and permit Kavanaugh to rebut the claims or provide an alternate interpretation, and no reason to just bulldoze past this and confirm the appointment regardless. But guess what Senate Republicans are going to do.
Stranger
Are you saying that we shouldn’t believe the posters in this thread? I don’t know how else to interpret this post. If so, WTF is wrong with you? People are coming forward and telling their story for zero personal gain and at no risk to the people who assaulted them, and you still don’t believe them. You’re why people don’t come forward.
If not, then what did you mean? And, why are you bringing Kavanaugh into this thread? There’s already one in Elections that you can wallow in.
You’ve never struck me as quite the obtuse asshole that you’re coming across here. Did you have a stroke or something? Have you started watching Fox News?
This thread is for people to come forward and talk about why they never reported the sexual assault they experienced, or if they did, what happened or didn’t happen.
The first time I mentioned something to my parents about a pair of boys who continually groped and touched me at school, I was told boys will be boys and that they probably just like me.
The second time, I didn’t want to look stupid complaining about something ‘normal boys’ do to girls they like. That’s about when I started gaining weight and doing my best to look as unattractive as possible.
The third time, the worst time, I didn’t want my father’s daughter to be deported. Besides, we were married. We all know it’s not rape if you’re married, right?
Until relatively recently, it wasn’t, according to Wikipedia, as late as 1993 in two states.
Think about that - for most of the history of this country a woman could be raped regularly, and that was just how it was. At least now we pretend.
You don’t think that would happen anywhere? Maybe people welcome the chance to get nasty and fight back. I don’t know.
What does everyone think? Should I request a forum change? (I can do that, right?)
Stranger and Ritter, there are about a dozen threads about Kavanaugh, and over a hundred that are discussing him. Would you move your conversation to one of them? Thanks (and see you there, probably).
Did I call it, or what?
A. This thread was not opened to discuss how perceptions can be mistaken.
B. No, you aren’t. You’re talking about how people who’ve been raped shouldn’t be believed, and, to add insult to injury, attributing the mechanisms that rapists use to go on living themselves to do so.
C. Shut up
Until you are ready to talk about why you didn’t report being sexually assaulted, or the result when you did, please just listen or leave.
Five bucks says he comes back.
I have stopped, I have listened, and I have thought. And to say “your welcome” to that would imply that it is not something that I (and we) should have done without being asked.
I am going to veer a slight bit from your OP, and all apologies, to talk about why I didn’t report what I saw, and why they didn’t report it either.
I spent most of my working life in restaurants, and those are hotbeds of toxic masculinity. The amount of sexual harassment that I saw and ignored makes me feel like shit, now that I have left that culture and that environment, and see it from the outside, and now seeing just how disgusting it was, and how complicit I was in not standing up against it.
There were some extreme situations where I did end up giving a dirty look (like when the general manager walked up behind a server bending down to get something out of a cooler, grabbed her by the waist, and shoved his crotch into her ass), but that is pretty much the extent. There were even a few instances that I found to be amusing at the time, and when I think about that now, I want to curl up and die.
Servers were expected to give at least blow jobs if a cook gave them a ride to work. The servers who were more “friendly” got their food prioritized. Grab ass was the name of the game, and if a customer got “friendly” the managers would not back up the server in the slightest.
One of the servers actually did get fed up with it, and tried to sue, but we had all signed arbitration agreements, so that didn’t go anywhere, all that was accomplished was that she had lost her job, and was largely blacklisted from serving jobs in the area.
I was talking to an acquaintance of mine recently who still does work in the industry, and he said “What am I supposed to do, report the whole goddamn store?”
I would really like to see the #metoo movement move its way down to the entry level employee. The one with no power. The people that have come forward so far have certainly had a lot to lose by doing so, but they are also in much better positions to be believed and to be able to manage their lives even if they are not.
Some of you have pointed out that it was the times that made it hard to report. The times are still now.
It is as you say in the OP “Why didn’t I report? I really did not think anyone would have done anything. I was probably right.”, but that only holds true if I am the only one reporting. We all need to report not just what happens to us, but what we see happens to others as well.