"Wife always right, even when she's wrong" - Implications for women's characters?

I think what’s being overlooked are the number of arguments and disagreements actually prevented because women hold their tongues and go with whatever their husbands decide from the beginning.

In my experience, women are programmed to defer to men by default. I seen this dynamic all the time at work. A female supervisor seems more likely to face dissension or critique from her underlings, than males are. It also occurs in the home. A man who voices an opinion or decision is less likely to be challenged or doubted. Women are groomed to be more cautious in their decisions and second guess themselves.

What this means is that most of the time, in day-to-day, routine, non-conflict situations, it’s probably the man who “is right, even when he’s wrong”. Since these situations occur all the time, they are easy to overlook. After all, aren’t we told to keep a protective eye out for the Male Ego all the time? (Who talks about the Female Ego?) To correct him when he’s wrong or disagree with his reasoning is equivalent to emasculating him, so it goes. (What is the female equivalent to emasculization?)

But its easy to notice the conflicts, and that’s where the confirmation bias comes into play. In those situations, it may seem like men have to back down more often. Perhaps this occurs for two reasons: 1) men’s frequent tendency to avoid any confrontation which relies heavily on communication (so they are more likely to surrender than engage) and 2) a woman’s strong desire to get her way this one time out of 100 since it’s her perception that she “surrenders” all of the 99 other times. If a woman is at the point that she is arguing with a man, it’s probably because she feels very strongly that she is right and is not willing to defer to him this time.
Do I think there’s some truth to the meme being discussed? Yes, a grain of it. The saying is incomplete though. It should read: “the wife is always right, even when she’s wrong…because the husband always gets his way, even when he shouldn’t”.

Wow, that’s not my experience at all. As for wives always holding their tongues, what magical fairyland do you live in? Because it sure ain’t Earth.

Just because my experiences don’t jibe with yours doesn’t mean I’m living in a magical fairyland, but thanks for sharing.

Exactly my point. Thank you.

I don’t understand your point, so I have no idea what you are thanking me for. Can you elaborate?

You come into this thread with “facts” about how these arguments are actually the fault of men because they make the wife hold her tongue on everything. Your basis for this assertion is nothing more than your experience.

Yet, a large number of posters in this thread agree with the OP. So how does your assertion trump ours? We didn’t overlook anything, we don’t see it that way. It doesn’t make us wrong and you right just like it doesn’t make the OP inherently right. But Polerius did come up with a study that is supports the OP as a real trait of many women pretty well.

Please challenge me point by point in a rational manner rather than accusing me of asserting things I haven’t said. Nowhere did I accuse men of making women do anything. And implying that I live in a “magical fairyland” is cute and all, but it’s completely unnecessary and immature in IMHO.

::goes back to read my first post in thread::

::goes back to do again, just to be absolutely sure that I didn’t overlook something::

Where did I say or even imply my opinion trumps anyone else’s? All I did what everybody else in this thread did: simply state my opinion.

Sorry, I didn’t get the memo that forbids disagreement with the OP. Can you fax it to me? I know he posted a cite–and I’m really happy for him, cause that’s just awesomely swell and stuff–but that doesn’t automatically make it an offense to offer an opinion that, you know, happens to differ from others.

Sometimes people disagree with one another. Not the end of the world, though. We should be able to disagree without become overly emotional and disrespectful. Don’t you agree? I get this sneaky feeling that you think I’m unreasonable for no reason except that my opinion differs from you and others. Is that the look you’re going for? Because, assuming you’re male as your username implies, your reaction to what I wrote is not exactly proving that this whole “must be right” thing is strictly a female behavioral trait. I’m just sayin’, yo.

I am a female here and our marriage does work on the premise that I am always right. Why?

Well, as much as I dreamed of a marriage where both partners were equal and made the same number of decisions about our lives together and we always agreed…our personalities don’t let it work like that.

I need someone to be ‘in charge.’ I can let others be in charge and go with the flow or I can be in charge. Same diff.

My husband…does not. He likes to take life as it comes and while that is a wonderful trait to balance me, it doesn’t get the bills paid or the house cleaned or dinner on the table.

So, I am in charge of all day-to-day things. I keep all his needs in mind and go above and beyond to make sure he is happy with everything (making sure he loves the meals we eat, lives in a clean house, has running water at the right temp).

It takes a lot of effort but, hey, I am the one who needs a figurehead in charge right?

His part of the effort is to accept my plans for the daily small stuff without too much argument. So, pretty much his day-to-day attitude is that I am always right when it comes to household stuff and planning.

Obviously, bigger decisions require agreement and debate but even then, I am the one making sure they get implemented.

(This ‘I am right’ thing, does not extend to our often surprisingly researched political disagreements. Nobody is right or wrong about those. They are just for fun. Fun comes in different forms in all relationships. It would totally drive me bonkers if he 'yes, dear’ed me during one of those.)

The prosecution rests your honor.

I’m sorry. Gonna to shut up now before I get myself in anymore trouble, dear.

I haven’t read the whole thread (on vacation in VEGAS, BABY!), but I wanted to add my data point - I completely agree with the OP, that treating women this way (or letting women who want to be treated this way get away with it) is doing no one any favours. Of course women can be and are wrong. Women are not some kind of mythical, all-knowing creatures, and men are not slobs who can’t make toast without some woman holding their hand every step of the way. The flip side of the Woman Can Do No Wrong stereotype is the Idiot Man-Child, and I’d have to be a fool to have married a man who can’t do anything right on his own.

To answer the questions: I don’t think the axiom for happy marriages in correct (I’m female).
There is no way to interpret it that doesn’t put women and men in a bad light.
I think the axiom has survived for so long because it is marginally based in the differences between men and women, but takes it much further than the differences warrant.

I think some of the differences in experience that we are seeing in this thread regarding this issue are due to the different sub-cultures we all come from, and the role of men and women in those sub-cultures.

i.e. I would expect that if one is poor/lower-middle class/upper-middle class, Caucasian/Black/Hispanic, high school diploma/college degree/graduate degree, etc, all these have an effect on the sub-culture we live in, and the role of men and women in those sub-cultures may not be the same.

I have no data to back this up, but if true anywhere, ISTM that this axiom would be mostly true in middle to upper middle class Caucasians.

Not sure if we are in disagreement or not, but just to re-iterate the point: The axiom does not posit that women Can Do No Wrong, but that for a happy marriage it’s best for the guy to, in effect, act as if that were true (at least about the non-major life decisions)

Here is what I said in the OP
“axiom that to have a happy marriage the man always has to be the one to admit he is wrong”

“if we assume that in long-term relationships there will be times when the woman is in the wrong as well as times when the man is in the wrong, and if we assume that the above advice for men to always cave in is good for the long term stability and happiness of the marriage …”

Oh boy. I’ll step into it here. The OP is absolutely right.

Before I got into relationships, I thought that arguments would be like the Harvard Debate Rules. I make my points, she makes hers, and we find common ground, compromise, and come to the best solution.

Yeah, I know. Laugh it up, guys. I was pretty naive.

Women bring emotion into every single one of their arguments. If you say that you don’t want to do what she wants then that means that you think what she is saying is wrong. And if what she is saying is wrong, it means that she is wrong, which means that you think that she is stupid, and if you think that she is stupid then why did you marry her in the first place? Maybe that slut (fill in blank with name of last female that was mentioned in conversation) wouldn’t be as stupid as her and maybe you should go see if (fill in same name) will put up with being treated like that?

I exaggerate, but it is true. Women are hurt and pained by a rejection of their idea. If you are out with your buddies and one of them suggests stopping at Chili’s for dinner and you don’t want to, then no big deal; we will go somewhere else. If you tell your wife that, she gets upset because she thought you liked Chili’s and she only suggested it because that’s what you like and if you can’t share these experiences together then she doesn’t know why she even tries.

You just don’t want Chili’s tonight, so you ask her where else she would like to go? Nowhere. Let’s go home.

Rookies will make the mistake of thinking that she wants to go home. Women are always right because your life will be much easier if you say they are right. But, I know, your wife is different…

Could it be that women have the vagina, and men want the vagina?

If men win the argument, then the woman may be upset and withhold sex.

Only speaking for myself, because it is a game I have played often. My husband wants sex just a tiny bit more than me. How do I know? Because as much as I enjoy it, I never get the chance to initiate; he is constantly in a perpetual state of initiating.

If we are angry at eachother, he knows I am not gonna give it up…not that night. So he makes up so that we can get our thang back in action.

Just my own personal experience. Maybe this is what a lot of men mean when they say, “only a rookie doesn’t know she’s right even when she is wrong.”

I also cop to playing the kind of emotional games that jtgain is talking about. Not all the time, but sometimes, I let my emotions drive me, and I do dumb shit like, “Well, forget it, let’s just go home”. Then he will back down and tell me what I wanna hear. Funny thing about that is; he is playing a type of game too.

He knows all along what I want to hear, but pretends not to. Then, when he is ready, he will break down and give in, “Ok, honey, you really want Mexican instead of Chinese…we’ll get what you want babe, I’m sorry.”

It doesn’t excuse my silly emotional game playing, but I am not going to ignore the fact that he clearly is feigning confusion when he pretends to be flummoxed at what might satisfy me.

All of this must be stressed to be my own issues, and not at all representative of all women. I admit I have am still working on my emotions getting in the way.

But I can’t finish this post without confessing that I know an awful lot of women that behave similarly.

My wife is always right because she’s smarter than me.

I was smarter for three weeks, at the end of her pregnancy with two babies sucking all the calories out of her system. I didn’t like it.

Your post made me smile.

And for the record, much of what you say jives with my observations (female here).

However, please note that there ARE not a small number of women out there that DON’T have that particular thinking pattern. (I like to think I’m one; however I really have to watch it to make sure I don’t slip into the “respond emotionally” mode)

At least in my relationships and marriage, there can be a lot of double-talk going on. The women talk about something (doesn’t always matter what), and they’re really using that subject as an object in order to get at some emotional type issue.

I (and most men) hear something like “You do too much of subject X” from the woman, and we set about refuting that and saying we only play 1 hour of Xbox a day, or we only go to the bar with our buddies once a week or something like that.

In reality, the woman’s trying to say that she would like to snuggle up to you on the couch more, but identifies whatever it is that she thinks is an obstacle to that goal and criticizes the men on it.

It’s a classic case of women not saying what they mean; I’ve had woman bosses who would say that something was a good idea, and to them, that was a command, and to me, it was a suggestion that I could disregard at leisure, because it was not a command.

jtgain has a good point too… when she’s criticizing you for playing too much xbox, that’ been demonized in her emotional mind, so that she absolutely hates the thing, (because you don’t snuggle on the couch enough), and nothing you say is going to win, because if it’s not completely irrational at that point, it’s damn close to it.

Many men will just knuckle under at that point… I like a good fight, so I tend to stand my ground, which causes bigger fights, but I have one advantage… logic, which tends to break through into the lawyer part of my wife’s mind and defuse the situation.

I’m lucky in that… if she wasn’t a lawyer, I’d be screwed.

My GF and I have an understanding and it works out pretty good for our relationship:

I don’t try to control her life.
I don’t try to control my life.

So what do you think is going to happen? She’s going to say something like “Well played. I am in awe of your logic and reason. Please accept this blowjob for your trouble.”?

The mistake men make is trying to argue using logic and reason. You wouldn’t reason with a child? Or a crazy person? Or the family dog? Whenever I get into an argument with a women, I give her a taste of her own medicine. Random non-sequitors. Complaining about long-since forgetten shit from ten years ago. Sulking. And if that doesn’t work, I start bawling like a schoolgirl.