Seems like the general drift of the thread is that the skeeviness is difficult to judge without knowing the comatose woman’s opinion. If she were to excuse or even approve her husband’s behavior, the complaints would melt away.
So maybe we should make this part of a standard prenup:
Or for those who don’t like prenups, how about the vows:
“…for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, but not in a hospice bed getting nailed like a sack of warm pork, because that shit ain’t right.”
He put his dick in someone who was in a coma. I didn’t think I could put it in a worse light.
I really, really doubt the guy will get convicted. As I quoted earlier, what he did may not have actually been a crime. Plus it’s hard enough for a conscious, breathing woman to have charges stick (especially when it comes to marital rape). Really, though, if she’s not under his care at their home, I think it’s too much to ask the care workers to allot ‘conjugal time’ and be expected to deal with the consequences.
Fucking the comatose aside, this thread has taken a creepy turn (like so many on the Dope that have to do with rape), though I don’t doubt a lot of it is frustration and projection. There’s this real anger over women’s ability (ideally) to choose when and how they have sex, as if that’s some great power play rather than a personal right to choose what goes into their body. (Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure there are plenty of women who use sex as a bargaining tool – probably the ones who don’t get much satisfaction out of it otherwise – but no one’s forcing men to give them things in exchange for sex. Conversely, some men are forcing women to have sex. There’s a difference).
I’ve got to ask the married, male, hetero Dopers: Do you have free access to your wife’s vagina? Does it matter if she’s feeling ill, not in the mood, on her period or unconscious? If yes, did you come to an agreement or did you just assume this would be the case from your honeymoon on? Did you have free access while you were still dating? Do you feel the need to satisfy her when having intercourse? Under what circumstances (if any) would she be able to turn you down?
Don’t give me this “women and their sacred, not-to-be-touched vaginas” bullshit as though it doesn’t carry an equal implication of “men and their sacred, not-to-be-denied dicks”.
I have sex when and because I want sex. I presume that men feel the same way. That said, is there some reason we can’t agree that no matter how close we may be, my pussy is MINE and your dick is YOURS, and they should be treated as such?
But you didn’t answer the question - would you want him to go to prison - for 10 or 20 years or whatever sentence a rape conviction carries? Are you indeed married or are you speaking hypothetically?
Well, either or. I don’t know what you do with the pooch, but I know what I do with mine, and what my SO can do with it. We clearly have different views on it.
I’m not married. But if I were, I’d want my husband to, you know, not have sex with me when I can’t say “yes” or “no.” I’m aware that being in a relationship carries implied consent. Leaning over and touching your wife’s breast can be foreplay, doing that with someone you’ve just met is assault, etc. But I just think that even in a relationship, you have to know that the other person wants to have sex, right? Like, sometimes I’m not in the mood to have sex just because I’m tired or sick or not in the mood, and so I tell the person that. You can’t really know if the comatose person is “in the mood” or if they don’t feel like having sex. At that point, it’s just a body.
Well, yeah, if I’m not consenting, it’s rape. I just think it’s a little disturbing that you’re equating women wanting to be able to consent to when they have sex to some kind of twisted power game. Is it so wrong to want to define when and where we have sex?
You realize, don’t you, that yours is not the only opinion on the matter? We’ll make a note of it in your permanent record that if you are comatose, you don’t want your husband touching you. It wouldn’t bother me.
I’m not surprised. Look, I’m not trying to offend you in any way at all, and I normally wouldn’t say this because I don’t think it usually a fair tactic, but in this very specific case, I’m comfortable saying that you just don’t understand.
Which you’ve accepted and addressed oh-so-respectfully, with the implication that since our views are different, I clearly either hate or can’t get sex.
Well, it’s not wrong, per se. It’s definitely different. What a man would consider rape would probably involve a lot of force and violence. What a woman would consider rape would be “I wasn’t totally happy.”
Then why start dragging in “OMG what if he made her pregnant? OMG what if he gave her an infection?”? That was kinda my point - that I’d have thought the whole sex-without-consent part was serious enough.
Damn the patriarchy and their insistence on objective evidence and proof beyond reasonable doubt, huh?
Married male hetero Doper responding: in order,
[ol]
[li]Fuck, no.[/li][li]Fuck, yes, especially subsection (b), although she can generally manage subsection (a) often enough.[/li][li]Falls by default.[/li][li]Fuck, no. (She wanted to be virgo intacta on her wedding night and I cheerfully accommodated her.)[/li][li]I am a skilled and considerate lover and have often been told so. Close enough?[/li][li]Any she damn well pleases, down to and including “can’t be arsed”.[/li][/ol]
That do you?
You didn’t ask, but personally, the whole sex-with-comatose-wife thing squicks me the fuck out, and that’s before considering the practicalities like the catheter business mentioned upthread. On the other hand, I’m not meant to make what does and doesn’t squick me out the objective measure of how other people should conduct themselves sexually, now is it?
My cock? Muuuuuch more often.