I am a new craps player and winner so far. I read two books on it. I am small time. My table buy in is 500 or so. The last 4 times I went to the local casino I won. I always play the no pass with full 5x odds. I often don’t roll. Im up 1400. Will they kick me out if I keep winning? I only play the no pass line. (Makes me suspicious the dice tend to 7)
Welcome to the SDMB mtjull. This is a very old thread and you could have started a new one to ask this question. Expect some comments about* zombies *to follow.
If you read the thread you’ll see that they can kick you out, and they surely will if you win enough money. But for a new small time player, you should be happy with the prospect that you’ll win so much money a casino will kick you out.
I can never remember the rules of craps, but IIRC (If I Recall Correctly) with the exception of one type of bet, you probably won’t keep winning.
Nope. The house always wins in the end.
If you want to wager extremely large sums, they may not be able to oblige. Not because you’re a winner but because they want the long term average to work out. A single lucky roll at a sufficiently large bet size can ruin that. That’s why there are table limits to maximum bets, which you’re not likely to see at $5-$25 tables buying in for $500.
*BTW: Welcome to the SDMB, but you may want to start a new thread, rather than revive one that’s been dead for 12 years.
As mentioned above and in other similar threads, they want you to keep coming to get to that long run result even faster. While it’s within the realm of possibility that you’re simply naturally lucky, the more likely result is that you will eventually give all those winnings (and more) back to the casino.
Also, if those books claim there’s a system to win, they’re worthless. If they just offer advise on the bets with the best odds (which still favor the casino), they should be fine.
I guess you get a very minor benefit from playing Don’t Pass over the Pass line, but it’s not much of a difference (IIRC, something like 0.01% difference - not 1% but 0.01%). Some people do it, but it’s not really particularly suspicious. Superstitious players may consider you unlucky though. The dice “tend” to 7 because it’s the most likely outcome (1 out of 6 rolls, on average).
Casino practices may have changed over the past 12 years, and we don’t know what kind of time period your four visits have covered (four wins in one week is different than four wins over the past six months) but $1400 is chicken feed.
They will not kick you out for winning at craps. The vig is still in their favor. Unless you are some how trying to cheat or consistently short roll and not listening to instructions.
Here’s a fascinating article from 1979 about two men who tried to make big money with a card-counting computer. They won big at first, but they also quickly got shut down by the casinos.
The OP was originally posted to a thread from 2001, so I’ve split that post and the replies into this new thread. Here is the original.
Card counting with a computer also has the distinction of being extremely illegal. (Card counting with your brain is OK. But they might kick you out anyway.)
My understanding is that, far from kicking you out, the casinos will love you. There are plenty of people who rack up some quick wins; with the number of people playing, odds are that each end of the spectrum (lots of quick wins, lots of quick losses, and a metric buttload of people in between) will show up. Difference is, with a lot of quick wins, your pleasure centers get aligned with the game, meaning you’re a lot likelier to continue playing than someone who gets “punished” with a lot of early losses. I’d recommend recording your future plays carefully to determine whether you continue to beat the house, or whether mathematics catches up with you.
Casinos like winners. Winners come back and play more, particularly winners who think they’re lucky or think they have some sort of winning system.
As long as you’re not doing anything that changes the fundamental odds of the game (counting cards, for example) they figure that in the long run they’ll make the money back.
I have seen only two things (besides things like being too drunk or otherwise obnoxious) for which you would be kicked out of a casino:
“Counting cards” in blackjack;
Using a phone app to help you play Video Poker (yes, there are apps where you tell it what game you are playing and what cards you are dealt, and it will tell you which ones to discard).
You say your buy-in is 500; what is your average bet?
Echoing other statements, if you legitmately won that money with a lucky streak the casino would love to have you back. Casinos have the odds in their favor and these odds fall into place the more that money is played (what’s easier to double $100? Bet $100 on black once or bet $5 on black 20 times?)
The last thing they want you to do is win big and then walk away. They want those winnings back on the table as soon as possible and as many times as possible for the odds to take effect so they can get their money back.
That’s why comping rooms for big winners is so common. If Joe Lucky hits for $5K of now ‘disposable’ income and is feeling pretty lucky, they will comp him a $150 room in hopes that he’s going to take that $5K right back downstairs and lose it right back.
I could see a scenario where someone was betting HUGE amounts (6-7 figures) and winning an absurdly high percentage of time at craps and might be kicked out, but 1400 isn’t a drop in the bucket as far as the casino is concerned.
Which illustrates an important point. Casinos won’t kick you out because you think you have a winning system. They’ll only kick you out if you have a winning system that actually works.
I don’t see how a video poker aid is supposed to be a detriment to casinos. Video poker machines still favor the casino, anyway, and it’s easy to find optimal video poker tables to print out. Even with optimal play, the house wins.
*Caveat: the pay table on a few machines have been known to be set so that, with absolute correct play, the player had the slightest of edges. I’ve seen fewer and fewer of these in recent years, though, and it takes long grinding sessions to reap the benefits. Most machines feature solid house edges.
Several years ago, it was certainly more common to be asked to put electronic devices away, though. There were concerns they could be loaded with gear to interfere with the game machines.
There are no bets available in craps that produce a positive expected value. I.e., in the long run, any bet made will eventually produce a losing result for the player.
Mathematically, there is no way to bundle a group of negative EV bets to produce a positive EV.
If they notice that you are winning a lot, they will definately watch you to make sure the game is square. If they find nothing, they will start comping you rooms, food, etc. They know that the longer you play, the more likely you will lose it all back.
I have also seen players kicked out for not being able to handle their own action and holding up the game. This occasionally occurs with system players who think that the next roll is more important than the roll after. In other words we all know that every honest roll at a crap table has the same expected outcome as every other one. Therefore if you are a system player it really does not matter if you put your bet down on the next roll, the one after it or the one after that, but people who believe in a system also think that if they miss a roll it will throw their system off. Sometimes when they are losing, their bets get too complex for them to quickly calculate and the game passes them by and they get irate,(especially if they miss out on a winner), cause a scene and ultimately get backed off. In my experience new players who gravitate toward the don’t side are looking for the perfect play, which of course does not exist. My guess is that the OP, if he has just noticed that seven comes up a lot, will quickly return that $1400 and has probably already done so. A famous gambler from Las Vegas, known as “Nick the Greek,” claimed to have won and lost more than a million dollars in a session more times than he could count. He also said that the easiest way he knew to lose at craps was to lay the four and the ten. I believe him.
How about a large “lay” bet on the point where the shooter is trying to make his sixth different point and you have already made the maximum “fire” bet? This situation comes up with a certain amount of regularity and the players who lay the number seem to do quite well. It is too complicated for me to analyze but there is no question that the combination of the two produces a sure winner.
The casinos make a lot of money off of people who realize that the games favor the house, but think they’ve discovered some loophole. In the past some people have really developed profitable systems, but the casinos have also gotten much better at shutting those down before they lose a large amount of money.
It’s in their best interest to maintain the illusion that if you’re smart enough you can be the one to develop the next big scheme.
Can you give me an example that does not involve card counting?