Biden lied to us all. I know that, you know that.
And you get Nazis out of that
I don’t think he did, nor do I care. Morally speaking he did the right thing in this regard, there’s no virtue in sacrificing somebody to fascist fanatics in the name of some twisted ideal of “honesty at any cost”.
I have in good faith responded to all your questions.
But I really curious about the candy bar and children thought
Could you elaborate?
The only issue I have with the pardon is that it brought Hunter back to the headlines when I doubt he was at the top of their enemies list. But I agree Joe made the right call.
Yeah; given their history of literally decades-long vendettas, I certainly wouldn’t bet they’d decide to give up now.
An honorable boxer pledges to always fight by Marquess of Queensbury rules, and does. Then one day in the middle of a bout the other guy pulls a knife, and the crowd cheers him on. Should the honorable boxer let himself be gutted, or grab a knife of his own?
It’s not a lie if you believe it when you say it.
The ability to change one’s position in response to changed circumstances is important in everyday life, and in politics. If a politician makes a promise based on a particular set of circumstances, and those circumstances change, I want that politician to have the ability to consider whether they should change their position.
Here’s what’s changed since Biden made that statement: the incoming President has vowed to use the criminal justice system against his political opponents, which if carried through will be a terrible assault on the rule of law and the democratic system.
Politico has put together a list of all the people that Trump has said he will use the criminal justice system against:
- Joe Biden and the entire Biden crime family
- Kamala Harris
- Barrack Obama
- Hillary Clinton
- Nancy Pelosi
- Letitia James
- Arthur Engoron
- Liz Cheney
- Jack Smith
- Alvin Bragg
- Mark Milley
- James Comey
- Hunter Biden
If you care about the rule of law, you should be very concerned by the incoming President’s goals in office.
Given that change of circumstances, it is appropriate for people to reconsider their past positions – including Joe Biden.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/11/06/trump-retribution-enemy-list-00187725
OK, we can stipulate that Biden is a hypocrite. Consider my pearls clutched.
As a hypothetical, what do folks think Biden would have done vis a vis Hunter had Kamala Harris been elected?
(Maybe already addressed in this thread or elsewhere; if so, please direct me there.)
My guess is that he would have let the prosecution and sentencing continue without a pardon, trusting the system.
That was the course he took throughout the prosecution, letting the DoJ handle it without any interference by him. He didn’t put pressure on Garland not to appoint a special prosecutor, he didn’t try to fire the special prosecutor, and he didn’t immediately pardon Hunter after the conviction or the guilty plea on the tax case.
Things changed with the election, with an incoming president who publicly said he would use the DoJ to go after his political enemies. That would not have happened with Harris.
Imo Joe would not have pardoned if Kamala had won. If the worst happened and Hunter was jailed then Kamala would have pardoned.
Ehh…maybe. I don’t see her doing that much. Maybe commuting his sentence but not full pardon.
Why not ? Due to the bad optics or the political price the democratic party pays for the pardon ? (I support Biden’s decision of pardon but I know there will be a substantial political price for the democratic party).
I feel commuting the sentence or a pardon is by and large the same thing except for a few technicalities.
Coming to political price quite a few democratic voices are coming out in opposition to the pardon now…and quite strongly.
Representative Jason Crow, Democrat of Colorado,
Representative Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, Democrat of Washington,
Senator Michael Bennet, Democrat of Colorado,
Senator Peter Welch, Democrat of Vermont,
Senator Gary Peters of Michigan, who headed the Democrats’ Senate campaign arm to name a few.
There are others too.
Even Jen Psaki…
And according to one of Joe’s closest allies Senator John Fetterman…both Hunter and Trump should be pardoned by Joe Biden as cases against both of them were weaponised.
As a father Joe did the right thing but I’m sure there will be a political price. Whatever spin or justification we may try to put (and I include myself in “we”)…the reality imo is it’s good for the Biden family but bad for the democratic party politically.
I’ve come to believe that the future of the Democratic Party (and our Republic) is not related to anything the Democrats do or say. It will depend on factors outside of anyone’s control, like the price of eggs. So, hope for good luck, and don’t bother with policy or politics.
Look. You all know I despise Joe Biden with a passion. I mean I wouldn’t spit on him if he were on fire. And I’ve always said the trouble with his administration (besides that he was President) was the optics. But I feel I’m taking crazy pills with the blowback he’s taking. We’ve discussed this people. Every President has made self-serving pardons and they are controversial. Bill Clinton pardoned his half-brother and the media and voters were like, “Meh.” Biden let the prosecution of his son go on until Trump (unbelievably) got re-elected AND until the nominated AG (Bondi) said that she was going to go after the enemies of America. I fully support any President pardoning anyone they want; I’ve always said that that is a feature not a bug so I can’t be angry with this pardon. But even if I didn’t hold that view, I still cannot get recreationally outraged over this.
I’ll tell you what scares me about this pardon. It’s what we’ve been seeing the last couple of years. The Dems are done being the party of the nice and they are ready to throw down with the Pubs when it comes to politics. I promised to not pardon him. This pardon is totally nepo. Yeah but you elected an insurrectionist that will make my son a political prisoner so FUCK YOU ALL!
I hate myself but I gotta respect it.
Sometimes so-called “technicalities” can be important, both practically and symbolically. IANAL, but my understanding is when a sentence is commuted, the conviction that lead to the sentence still stands. From a practical standpoint, that means the person is still a convicted felon and, while not having to serve the full sentence that was imposed, must still live with all the consequences of being a felon, such as forfeiture of certain rights, etc. From a symbolic standpoint, a commutation fully acknowledges that the person committed a crime and was duly prosecuted; there is no implication regarding the legitimacy of the criminal justice system, other than that the sentence imposed may have been inappropriate.
In contrast, a pardon is complete forgiveness of the crime(s) and the punishment. From a practical standpoint, that means any remaining parts of a person’s sentence are cancelled (like a commutation), and the person is no longer considered a convicted felon and so suffers no consequence from that designation. Symbolically, it implies (although does not necessarily establish) that no crime was committed and that the prosecution was illegitimate.
As it applies to the Biden’s, I think a commutation of sentences for convictions already handed down combined with a pardon from any future prosecutions (as I mentioned in an earlier post) would have allowed Joe Biden to maintain the stance that: (1) Hunter committed crimes and was duly prosecuted (fair, because other people who committed the same crimes could/would be treated the same way); (2) Hunter should be shielded from having to serve the full sentence that would/may have been imposed (not fair, as other people would not have that benefit, but also fair, as it is a Presidential prerogative and, one might say, a fatherly duty if such an option is available); (3) Hunter should be shielded from any future prosecutions related to the same crimes (fair, as it is highly doubtful other people would be threatened with more prosecutions from anything that might not be excluded by double-jeopardy, but highly likely the tRump DOJ would look for anything they could squeeze out vis a vis more charges); and (4) Hunter should be shielded from any prosecutions for earlier crimes that he may be accused of going back to 2014 (not fair, as other people would not be so shielded; but also fair, as it is almost certain the tRump DOJ would look back in Hunter’s past, but highly doubtful they would do that for any other person).
I think this would have allowed Joe Biden to remain consistent with what he said in the past as far as not interfering in the process, as he would be letting everything that has happened so far remain in place. But it’d also let him adjust to changing circumstances that without a doubt are a grave threat to his son, but would not be to anyone else in a similar circumstance.
Trump pardons an actual war criminal, and people clutch their pearls and gnash their teeth over Hunter Biden? What a sick fucking joke the USA has become.
Best summary of the situation I’ve seen. Thank you.