Will Rap music EVER go away?

Cafe Society
61

You’re right, bad grammar is NOT good for your credibility, but I’ll find it in my heart to address you anyway.

If it’s THAT different, at what point does it STOP being music at all? I’d say it’s more an art form than music.

If you’d take the time to listen, there’s rhythm is ALL music. And saying that rap focuses on rhythm is an understatement. It’s a droning 4/4 beat that never deviates. It NEVER deviates. Just a constant tick/tocking much like the little water drops between the eyes of Chinese water torture.

Yes, it’s been around for 25 years and of course, during that length of time one cannot avoid it so, I HAVE listened to it. Granted, it’ not my cup of tea. I’m not here to bash it but to try to figure out why it has the effect it does on people. I’m not even here to bash YOU my friend. Different strokes and all that.

But here’s something I read recently that may or may not be true; it was suggested that the fashion statement which is garnished by the rap and hip/hop community was born from prison inmates. You know, the ill-fitting bagging pants (issued at prisons WITHOUT belts to avoid hangings), sneakers WITHOUT shoe laces (also to avoid hangings).

It’s my ascertion that people want to distance themselves from the genre because of the obvious nod it gives to violance, gangs, anger and prison activities.

It’s a thought.

And to answer to your question, non-native, I happen to be “informed” in MUSIC . I’ve been trying to fit rap into the general category of music, but I think I’m failing.

MOD!!!
I think we’ve covered this. Please close or else I’ll we should begin to change the subject matter to something more - Flaming!!!

62

hey pot, meet kettle.

:roll eyes: mr music expert doesn’t know the difference between a beat and a rhythm, it seems.

he also shows that he has no understanding of the history of the music he criticises. if ya haven’t heard it already, rap didn’t begin as the music of gang-culture. go listen to some afrika bambatta

and decides that he’s important, and knows what he’s talking about. so listen to him! you morons!

and finally, when he can’t bear the thought that anyone disagrees with him, he runs crying to the mods, begging them to shut down the thread.

and hey, just to address your statements:

listen to the move by the beastie boys. rap complete with a beat that changes! now are you satisfied?

63

You’ve said yourself that you don’t like it, so surely you must know why.

It seems many posters here have at least admitted to liking some rap songs. And the popularity of rap/urban music stations, rap CDs, and rap artists (Will Smith, MC Hammer, LL Cool J, Ice T, Ice Cube, Coolio, Queen Latifah, etc.) seem to strongly suggest that rap is at least tolerated by the general public to some degree and appreciated as an art form.

So perhaps the question you SHOULD be asking is “Why is rap music so popular?” Maybe then you wouldn’t get all the flames, imaginary or otherwise.

64

I am a big fan of rap. I enjoy most (not by any means all) of it. I find it pleasing, fun, enjoyable, and interesting.

If you think

then you just haven’t ever been exposed to much rap.

I have no problems with people who don’t like music. I just wish that people wouldn’t make blind assertions regarding things about which they have no knowledge.

Try listening to some of the music suggested in this thread, then come back with some more valid arguments.

65

Not only do I own over one hundred rap CDs (ranging from old school Grandmaster Flash & the Furious 5 to Cool C, Mase, Notorious B.I.G., Snoop Dogg, DMX, 2Pac, Mystikal, Dre, OutKast, Busta, Nas, Common, G.Dep, Jay Z, Ice Cube, Ja Rule, Wu Tang, and ODB), I also own every Beatles album plus the Anthologies, Live at the BBC, and both Pastmasters; 7 or 8 Rolling Stones albums; many Cream, Derek & The Dominos, and Clapton CDs. I’ve got Elvis, Chicago, 11 Bob Dylan albums. I adore Led Zeppelin, Santana (old Santana), Van Morrison, James Brown, the Temptations, and any 60s motown really. I enjoy both classic rock and hip hop. I also listen to Prince, Madonna, Billie Holliday, Mary J. Blige, Bobby Brown, and Sneaker Pimps. The only whole genre I do not care for is country. I have yet to hear a country song I have liked. But I don’t discriminate against any form of music.

Having grown up in an urban, primarily black culture, I was exposed to rap music back in the early 80s. My mom played the Beatles and the Stones at home, but when I was hanging out with my friends, sitting on our stoops or playing in the neighborhood rec, all I heard was rap music, and I’ve loved it ever since. In Baltimore, at least, in the 80s, there was a lot of bitter blood between whites and blacks who lived in the city. I know a lot of white kids were forbidden by their parents to associate with black kids; listening to Sade could get your punished. I firmly believe that the fact that rap/hiphop music is primarily created by and made for black people is part of the reason why so many people despise it. I’m not calling anyone a racist; but I think a lot of folks don’t want anything to do with black culture, and rap is part of that. It represents what is different from them, and so they lambast it for the difference.

I like a lot of hiphop they play on the radio right now; but nothing compares to Prince Paul, De La Soul, The Roots, Pharcyde, A Tribe Called Quest, Method Man, and Goodie Mob in my opinion. If anyone is at all interested in hip-hop, you should check these groups out.

-Sarah, who’s going to see Busta (FOR FREE!) next Saturday. :smiley:

66

Is anyone else here reminded of how rock music was met with derision in the 1950s. Rock’s critics would state that this wasn’t music. I think Rap is similar. I would venture that the fact that Rap can inspire so much passion in some people, either love it or hate it means that it has to have some merit.

Asa for the argument that most rap sounds alike, doesn’t most contemporary pop rock music sound the same? I can’t tell Matchbox -20 from Third Eye Blind from the Calling from Creed from etc. Derivative repetitive music exists in any genre.
minor hijack
Are the terms hip-hop and rap interchangeable?
end of hijack.

67

brujo Hip hop usually refers to the whole culture as a whole, in which rap music is a part of. So hip hop can include graffiti, turntablism, breakdancing, etc. while rap refers specifically to the genre of music. Or that’s how i’ve interpretted it…

68

How much classic rock do I listen to? All of it.

The CD’s I purchased the same day I bought the Outkast CD:
[ul][li]Beethoven 25 (Fur Elise and Symphony #9 just make me feel happy, I don’t know why.)[]The Platters- Forever Gold (No explanation needed for this one.). []Hit Me With Your 80’s Box. (A must have for 30-something Pop lovers.)Tapestry (How did I live so long without this CD?)[/ul][/li]
Perhaps you need to diversify just a tad, Tark

69

I’m not sure what you think music is, Tarkus, but I challenge you to define music in a way that excludes rap and still includes everything else you consider “music.” Rap is very much music, and even if it wasn’t, it wouldn’t need a label to be enjoyed.

I semi-agree with your assertion about those with music training. There is some music out there that I have trouble enjoying because I am a musician, but I would hate myself to discount an entire genre, and I would be guilty of being pretentious and presumptuous.
Also, there is hardly unity among musicians that have a “tainted” ear. Nagging feelings aside, it still comes down to what sounds good. I can’t stand the majority of rap, but I can still respect the talented rappers out there, subjective as talent is. I have been known to enjoy Busta Rhymes and Wyclef Jean (I can’t tell you how excited I was to see a rapper play the guitar, how naive was I?) The greatest rap group of all time was NWA. Their stuff sounds really good. It is well thought out, beautifully arranged, and reeking of talent. MC Ren (the best) and Ice Cube made me see the rhythmic side of the human voice. I would love to hear someone fully utilize both the rhythmic and the melodic parts of the voice to create some really beautiful music.

Not to mention it is some of the funniest shit I’ve ever listened to.

Maybe you have listened to enough rap to decide whether or not you can enjoy the genre as whole (I really don’t enjoy the genre as whole, so I understand) but I don’t think you’ve given rappers’ talents and musical worth enough of a chance.

BTW, what music do you listen to? What are some of your favorite artists?

70

I’m personally not a big fan of rap; the only rap I’ve every bought was Arrested Development’s first album. I bought it after seeing the video for Tennessee – a very cool video.

And now I have “Fishing for Religion” (from that album) in my head, so I’ll use it as an example. There are backup singers singing in (I think) R&B style as the rapper raps. Tarkus, try saying these words out loud to a 4/4 rhythm:

The reason I’m wishing for a new religion
Is my church makes me fall asleep.
They’re praying to a god who watches you weep,
but doesn’t want you to do a damn thing about it.
When they want change, the preacher says shout it.
Does shouting bring about change? I doubt it.
All shouting does is makes you lose your voice.

I bolded the emphasized syllables; I’m also quoting these lines from memory, not having heard the song in years. Note that each line (except the last one, whose difference emphasizes the meaning of the line) has four emphasized syllables, and that lines appear in couplets. Lines have different numbers of syllables, and the emphasis occurs in different places; IIRC, Old English poetry often works similarly. Not the 4/4 rhythm you were talking about all rap using.

The intonations of the rapper’s voice are very important – the last five words of the last line go progressively lower (and slower), to emphasize the meanings of the words. But he’s not singing, not in this song. Some other songs on the album have the rapper going back and forth between singing, singsong, and rapping. And there’s definitely the backup vocals that you don’t normally find, for example, at poetry readings.

Now, I know that definitions do not an argument make. But you’ve also claimed that it’s not music, and I think it’s worth looking at what music is, dictionarily-speaking:

-Merriam-Webster

Clearly, all rap involves an ordering of sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity; clearly, it involves vocal sounds having rhythm. It’s music.

Lots of rap isn’t tonal – is that what you mean?

Finally, folks with music degrees, please forgive my poor terminology; I know what I listen to, but I don’t always know the words.
Daniel

71

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by gex gex *
**

and finally, when he can’t bear the thought that anyone disagrees with him, he runs crying to the mods, begging them to shut down the thread.

Hey gex gex, wait, that’s a rhyme, I get it!!! You’re right, that DOES sound pretty good. I’ve been converted.

If you check way back in the thread, I’ve asked that the discussion be closed. Why?

Because the original question has been answered for me. From the posts, I’m convinced that, much like aids, it’s not going away any time soon.

If you care to discuss something else on another subject, I’m game.

:smiley: :smiley:

72

I once heard a guy that his music is revolutionary - it had a real word MESSAGE!

I told him to write the text down cause I’d read it when I felt like it. Right now I wanted some music to listen to.

Yes, there is some music in rap, but what kind. Usually the low kind. But what can one do? Like everywhere else, there is good taste and bad taste in music as well. Most popular rappers excel in bad taste.

73

THEN DON’T LISTEN TO POPULAR “BLING BLING” RAPPERS.

Repeat after me.

LOTS of good artists have been mentioned so far (though I haven’t seen Cannibal Ox, a personal fav), just listen to some rap that ISN’T played all the time on the radio and be converted.

74

No, certainly not. Forgive me if I’m being impertinent, but have you actually listened to any hip hop except P Diddy? Bothered to check out any of the exceptional artists that have been suggested for your delectation? I’m not saying you will become an instant lover of hip hop; but it is possible that you might come down off your high horse and acknowledge that hip hop is not objectively bad. Like it or not, that is what you’re trying to say here.

Well, all I can say to this is “consider me a counter-example”. Despite being a classically trained pianist and clarinettist, I find hip hop to be an amazingly exciting genre. You just have to look. And by this I do not mean listen to some cruddy radio station that churns out P Diddy, D-12 and the like 24-7.

Well, if you checked out some of the suggestions you’ve been given, listened to the lyrics and actually heard the music rather than simply going “pfffft, it’s just shouting”, you might discover that some hip hop artists have really wide influences. But I suspect you’re not really interested.

75

I hope so because I detest the stuff. It has begun to change in the last few years and had to clean itself up some but the era of ‘life in da hood’ or ‘life on da streetz’ is starting to fade away. Like Punk Rock sprang from Acid Rock and Heavy Metal, flashed onto the scene for a few long years and then vanished from the main stream when the participants grew up. This is the era of Minority Music, which is starting to vanish also, like folk music did, as the buyers grow up and discover that life in the ghetto is not as enjoyable as life with money.

Look what happened to the decades of 60s music when the Flower Children started making 6 figures a year. Personally, I would like good rock and roll to return instead of this wimpy harmonizing, dancing, group singers thing where they do not even use their own bands most of the time. I’m tired of Brittany Spears and her ilk also.

76

My god, do you always manage such condescension and ignorance toward things you don’t prefer? I don’t particularly like flan, but I am somehow able to get through the day without making inconsiderate, repulsive, low-brow metaphors that compare it to a pandemic that is wiping out large portions of the population.

And I must say, I find it interesting that you compare rap music, a genre primarily created by and for blacks, to a virus that is primarily targeting blacks. (36 million AIDS cases worldwide, 27 million of them in Africa.) You might want to think before you type.

77

Listen to A Tribe Called Quest and De La Soul. Many of their lyrics deal with the transition from porr to rich. None of them celebrat life in the ghetto.

78

Even if they do, I still detest rap. I don’t like soul singers grabbing at their crotches every few seconds either or glorifying gang signs as part of a jibbering, frantic dance.

It was bad enough when oldy tyme Kuntry and Western used to glorify being po’ white trash and the luv uv bein’ a bar fighting, ass kicking, cheating, lying hard drinkin’ Kowboy.

79

This reminds me of how much I hate Mexican food, which is all greasy deep-fried beef and orange cheese and too much salt. That’s why I never eat at Mexican restaurants, no matter how good people tell me they are.

FWIW, if you listen to the country music classics like Willie Nelson, Johnny Cash, et al, that’s not what their music is about. Check out “Don’t Take Your Guns to Town,” or “Crazy,” or even “Country Boy.” The latter comes closest to glorifying a lifestyle you might turn your nose at: the protagonist loves fishing, loves going barefoot, loves the summertime.

Daniel

80

No, Tarkus, people who roundly reject an entire genre of music when they so obviously have no idea what they’re talking about. Sorry, guess I should have made that clearer.

That depends on whether or not you are the type of lame-o (and not necessarily indicating you here, Tarkas, my previous war-like comments aside…you have not said anything about your own training) whose musical opinions are based on the fact that you have training. There are those whose training makes them obsessive and pretentious. But there are plenty more who never lose the ability to react to music with their heart rather than their head.

This comment is rather cryptic…in the surrounding context it sounds as though you mean to suggest that people with musical training are less likely to enjoy rap music. Honestly, I’m not sure if that’s what you mean or not.