An article in "Business 2.0, Nov. pg. 39. "Microsofts Worst Nightmare " indicates that Firefox is intent on on taking over the internet and subjugate Internet Explorer to second or third place. Why? or Why Not?
Why? To make money.
Why not? I dunno…I like MS Explorer. I don’t see myself changing anytime soon.
Do they actually have a plan to make money somehow?
I don’t know about the “Intent on taking over the internet” thing but I wouldn’t be a bit perturbed to see IE go the way of the dodo (not that that’s likely to happen soon).
Firefox is a superior browser (IMO) and has been getting more and more converts lately while Microsoft has pretty much stopped working on IE6 (except for the occasional security update). The next version of IE should be unveiled with Longhorn in 2006. Or maybe a bit sooner
Until MS comes out with a browser that is standards complient and is not a gaping security hole, people will continue to switch to something else.
Firefox has tabbed browsing, is fast, relatively small, built in pop-up blocker, and the newest version has live bookmarks for handling RSS feeds. 
It’s also standards complient.
Anyway, to answer the “Why?” question…uh, because they can?
from the second link above
And good web developer these days would be horrified (though probably not surprised) by that statement. Statements like this that just prove that MS just doesn’t care about keeping up with the rest of the browsers out there. If MS loses market position it’s really no one’s fault but their own.
“some obscure thing called CSS”??? :eek:
And he said that this August? I take it MS wants Mozilla and its progeny to continue eating away at their market share?
The CSS comment is right on.
The general population just wants their web page to appear. They don’t want to spend 1 microsecond understanding the details, or even comparing feature/function between different browsers.
And having a browser ship with a PC vs one that needs to be downloaded is a huge advantage for MS.
The only way to beat MS on this is to at least match their distribution, plus convince people the security advantages are so real that they really should spend that 1 microsecond to think about their browser. It’s not going to be easy.
The general population’s ignorance or laziness is not an valid excuse to continue to produce inferior software.
CSS makes the web a better place whether the end user is aware of how it works or not. That’s not really the issue. Complient CSS pages load faster than table based layouts and are also much more accessible for blind or visually impaired users. They also don’t break text based browsers. There are laws on the books right now that require certain web sites to be accessible to people with disabilities. CSS is probably the easiest way to implement this.
CSS is the future of the web whether MS wants to admit it or not.
I’ve never heard of CSS or PNG, nor do I care about them. Honestly, I’ll just take whichever browser comes with my computer. They all work about the same, IMO.
Such as?
Whenever I hear a web designer say this, I get the feeling some feature is going to be added to their website simply because it’s “cool” like the Flash animation intro fad of a while back, and that serves no good purpose and just annoys every non-web designer.
Wrong-O!
If the reason for designing the software is to make money then the reasonable approach for a firm is to spend what is required and not one dime more. If spending $XXX would lead to NOT making $XXX+ in return than a firm is completely justified in stopping upgrades and new coding.
The reason Firefox and Mozilla are eating IE’s lunch are popups and scumware. Users don’t care about how the browser works, but they hate those fucking popups and they don’t like the idea of scummy vermin spying on their computer activities. I.E. is a lot more vulnerable to these than others, though I imagine that any browser that takes on a serious portion of the marketplace is going to find the scumware vermin adapting their work for the new browser. Of course, I understand other browsers don’t have gaping security holes like IE does, so it might not be so easy.
Unless Firefox comes free with the computer, they’re gonna have a hard time beating IE. I just don’t see people going out of their way to get different software when there’s already a program installed on the computer that works perfectly fine. (Maybe that last part is debatable, but you see the point, right?)
You realize that probably 90% of PC users have no idea what those last two things even mean, don’t you?
Yes, I realize that. And I also realize that many people don’t understand or care that the browser that comes with windows is great big security hole. I understand that many people just want to click their little E and get to browsing. But does that mean that the other browser developers should just give up? That innovation should stop because Microsoft doesn’t like it?
Firefox, Mozilla, Safari, Konquerer, and Opera are all free (well, Opera’s free version has ads) and they’re all a lot easier to dowload and install than even one MS Windows Update (OT, has anyone noticed the horror show that Windows Update has become? ack.).
All of that aside, Firefox IS gaining users. Will they be able to take over the browser market? I doubt it. But if they can put a scare into MS and the web gets a better IE because of it then everyone wins.
Who said that? I thought we were discussing whether Firefox will be able to beat IE in the market. The fact that you think 90% of PC users are stupid isn’t going to change reality.
Sorry, from this quote…
I must have misread your meaning there.
Uh…where did I say that? Oh, yeah…I didn’t. Please try and refrain from misrepresenting my posts, thank you.
And I did comment on whether I thought Firefox could beat MS. Did you miss that part?
Yeah, I guess so.
Well you did say, “many people don’t understand or care that the browser that comes with windows is great big security hole. I understand that many people just want to click their little E and get to browsing.” That sounds to me like you’re saying they are stupid. Especially the “just want to click their little E” part. Did you not intend for that to sound like a put-down?
Well, I thought I was pretty clear about what I was responding to. The fact that I responded to one thing you said does not mean I “missed” somthing else. Let me quote you again:
Again I ask you - Who said anyone should give up? Who said innovation should stop? Who are you arguing against?
Being lazy or ignorant of features is not the same thing as stupid. If I had meant stupid I would have said that. I also didn’t say 90%, I said many. You are the one who used the 90% number.
I took your earlier post
in response to my mention of some features and standards compliance, to mean that if that many people don’t know what they are (and hence, use them) then there’s no point in even adding those freatures. If that’s not what you were getting at then would you please clarify your meaning in the above statement.
Well feel free to substitute whatever percentage you want for 90%. I was using hyperbole to some extent. I haven’t actually done research on what percentage of people are aware of what features browsers have.
Wow. And then you had the gall to say to me, “Please try and refrain from misrepresenting my posts, thank you.” Pot? Kettle on line 2.
Well, it was already clear, but I’ll restate it for you. The thread is discussing whether Firefox will outsell IE. You mentioned a couple features, and I pointed out that most people don’t even know what those things mean. I don’t expect that people are going to go out of their way to stop using the browser that came with their computer and switch to a new one because of some features that they aren’t even aware of.
How on Earth do you get from “I don’t think they will outsell IE” to “There’s no point in even adding these features?” Honda Civics outsell Ferraris; that doesn’t mean they should stop making Ferraris, does it?
can I add my .02, as a computer-using-Luddite.?
Computer geeks love to talk about upgrades, improvements, new operating systems, etc.But the rest of us --the 90% who are computer-stupid and PROUD of it–don’t give a damn.We want to buy a computer that we know how to use.
There was a time when every new upgrade was a major event, because even the most illiterate user felt the improvement.But for the last 5 years, the "up"grades have been "down"grades for many people.Extra expense, with NO noticable improvement.
Techno-geeks forget that regular people buy computers in order to do something useful, not to boast about the inner guts and specs.
Mazda tried to sell rotary engine cars in the 70’s, and learned the hard way: new ideas don’t succeed when the public is already satisfied with the product they currently have.
I predict that when Microsoft announces its new system , only the geeks will get excited. The general public won’t buy it.We’ve already got computers at home that work fine.
(And “Longhorn” has got to be the stupidest brand name imaginable for a computer system. It sounds like a shoe polish.)
Best continue being proud of your computer ignorance. Longhorn isn’t a brandname. Longhorn, when it is released, will be called Windows XP2 or something. Longhorn is just the internal development codename.
I would also like to point out to all these people saying that no one cares if IE supports CSS or PNG or whatever other arcane formatting standard might be out there that you’re dead wrong. People don’t care about those things if you describe them that way, of course. But as time passes, more and more websites are going to use these new technologies, and browsers that can’t support them are going to appear broken. Oh, because of IE’s market share, developers will always make sure that sites don’t look terrible in IE, but there will be missing features. And people, even computer illiterate people, do care about that. The quote from MS about not caring about CSS is pure arrogance. It’s claiming that MS can release crap software that’s three years out of date, and because of their OS monopoly, still maintain market share. It’s this sort of attitude that peeves those who are computer literate, and it’s an attitue that universally hurts computer users, be they literate or not.