Will this election also be decided by the perverse American fetish for GUNS?


But the fact remains that if you think that taking people’s weapons by bypassing the constitution and going into peoples homes to do so is going to go well… That’s just far left whackaddodle nonsense.

Which part of my caricature do you believe is false?

FROM WHO? You paranoid fucking nitwit.

Do you sit at home with your gun in your lap waiting for someone to break in? Do you eat with the gun on the table? Take a shit with the gun in your lap? Jerk off next to your gun? Sleep with it under your pillow?

In your imaginary worst case scenario, do you think you are going to have the drop on the guy coming in to kill you? You seriously think you’re fucking Dirty Harry?

If the very scary government decides to come for your gun, do you think they’ll politely knock and wait while you lock & load?

Like I said – you’re delusional.

No. I think that the constitution would require an amendment that would either restrict or entirely revoke the 2nd Amendment. Per the provisions in the constitution that allow for that kind of process and procedure.

It won’t be easy or soon enough, but I believe that change is coming.

So I found a new angry friend I see.

If the government comes for MY gun, of course not. They’ll barge in and take it or kill me. I know this.

If they comes for everyones gun, well, yes, they would be better served to politely knock first.

I don’t think you’ll ever get there in my lifetime, probably never honestly, but that’s the only honest way to go about it. Change the amendment. It’s an unarguable mandate.

Too bad you guys won’t do it or even try it, favoring incrementalism until the breaking point.

Quicksilver, why would the Constitution require amending to go from:

a. Virtually Everyone can have semiautomatic rifles and handguns

b. Virtually Everyone can have bolt-action rifles and revolvers

Some special people who pay large fees and pass special checks can have the weapons in (a).

Clearly, a bolt-action rifle is still a far better firearm than anything the framers of the Constitution had in mind. So I am not sure how a theoretical Federal law banning anything better, and authorizing the ATF to buy back the existing weapons and conduct raids to seize weapons not turned in, would be unconstitutional.

Buyback isn’t a thing. That’s forced confiscation.

And all of that is completely unconstitutional. And wrong.

The framers didn’t “have in mind” to carry muskets for eternity.

It went well in Australia. It is going well in New Zealand. It will not go well in the USA because too many gun nuts would start killing innocent people who are law abiding. In other words, gun nuts being terrorists.

You’re just saying that. Do you have a cite?

Because the ATF does *exactly *this for things like short barreled rifles and submachine guns. Both of which were legal everywhere at one point in time.

And yes, it’s forced confiscation, however, not without compensation.

I know this is the pit but I want to at least throw my two cents out there. I’m a gun owner (revolver, bolt action rifle and semi-auto shotgun) and I’d like to buy probably two more guns including an “assault rifle”. Out of them the “assault rifle” is the one that I consider buying as a toy, I want an M&P 10/22 with a silencer. Having almost zero recoil and no noise will make the gun fun to shoot but aside from target shooting for fun it doesn’t have a real purpose unlike the other guns I own or would like to own. I do own guns for self defence both from animals and people. When I fantasize about killing people it is either with car mounted rocket launcher or beating them to death with a bat my guns don’t come into it because they are just fantasy.

I am a fan of red flag laws so we can take guns from crazy people before they hurt someone and I’m for making sure that noncrazy people who are likely to hurt someone can’t have a weapon like people with restraining orders or a history of abuse. Outside of that I’d like to repeal most of our weapons restrictions; grenade launchers, fully auto weapons, fighter jets, aircraft carriers cool whatever you want to own. In general I think its more important to focus on getting people the help they need so they don’t want to fill a truck with explosives and blow up a building rather than making sure people can’t buy fertilizer.

I won’t vote for Beto because I don’t believe he could win against trump now and if he became the democratic nominee I would vote for him but I would vote straight Republican below him because I believe he is less of a threat than Trump particularly when he has a Republican senate. I guess that makes me the gun loving swing voter you guys are hating on so I figured you might want to hear my opinion.

I’ve had enough of these “debates”, to be honest. I’m just fed up with all the “need it for protection” bullshit.

But I’ll address the confiscation question, which is a bullshit distraction as well. If a law was passed banning certain types of guns, this would be my approach:

  1. Contact all gun owners on record of (legally) purchasing restricted weapons
  2. Offer buy-back or tax credits for guns returned within 90 days
  3. Offer 25% bonus for guns returned within first 30 days
  4. Begin tax penalties for guns not surrendered after the first year.
  5. If guns was found as a result of a search for an unrelated cause/crime - additional penalties apply (fines and requirements for mandatory community service)
  6. No raids for gun seizures specifically.
  7. Raids only due to evidence as result of illegal activity or planned illegal activity.

I think RTFirefly got it right in post 10. Attitudes are changing and people are questioning the value of guns as not just the top issue, but the issue to the exclusion of all others.

Look at who falls into which camp. On the D side are people concerned about health care, education, the debt, infrastructure, foreign affairs.

On the R side? They undeniably contain the racists and white supremacists. The conspiracy theorists. Let’s not forget the Russian propagandists. And of course the gun enthusiasts who endorse the NRA full-court press to the exclusion of all other considerations.

The ability to continue the senseless civilian bloodshed through a shallow and paranoid misapprehension of the 2nd Amendment just isn’t going to stick anymore. Who in American history, other than right wing terrorists, have ever taken up arms against the government? The Confederates, who happen to be a dishonorable stain on the county’s history, what with their insistence on owning other humans based on skin color and their willingness to murderously rend the nation asunder to defend that evil institution.

It isn’t tyranny that these types oppose, but rather democracy itself, especially when it doesn’t go their way or when groups they don’t like are extended the same freedoms and protections they enjoy.

The mentality of gun rights absolutism is the same mentality that loves kids in cages at the border, the same mentality that sees a balanced budget as Socialism (because groups they don’t like will get healthcare and education), the same mentality that would welcome support from Russia rather than see true equality in this country. The isolationist, medieval mercantilist mentality that is going to run the global economy into recession.

The hyperbole, the divisiveness, the murderous hatefulness is on the side of Team AR-15. I think the public is getting wise to that and is ready to make some positive progress again. Exhibit A- the most vocal proponent of Team AR-15 has rapidly secured the status of this board’s lowest credibility poster! That’s the culture war in a nutshell right there.

In England where some guns are prohibited, collectors are permitted to keep otherwise prohibited guns once the guns have been made permanently inoperable.

Nearly a decade back, when Toronto hosted the G20, one of my neighbour’s friends was passing through town and spent a couple of days here. When unloading his truck, his gear included a rifle, so I asked him what he would be hunting (we live in the bush where thar be moose, deer, bear, wolves, and coyotes a-plenty, and where hunting is the norm and where for many people it has been a fundamental necessity of life for thousands of years).

He replied by mentioning something else, as if he had not heard my question.

He usually spends a few days here a couple of times a year, camping with my neighbour in the summer and skiing with my neighbour in the winter. He’s one heck of a nice guy – well balanced, clear thinking, and open to serious discussions involving conflicting opinions.

He is a senior Mountie who often wins national sharpshooter competitions. If you are aware of Canada’s sharpshooter tradition, this will mean something to you. He is on a team tasked to enter hijacked planes (they rotate as to who goes in first – think about what that means for a second), and he is routinely stationed on rooftops when there is need for very tight security. In short, he knows what he is doing when it comes to firearms.

Even more significantly, in hand-to-hand fighting he has shot a person dead, so he knows at a deep gut level what the use of a firearm can mean.

What does he think of gun control? Only long guns capable of one bullet at a time being loaded and fired, and no guns for criminals and crazies.

I share his opinion.

The USA has the highest incarceration rate in the world other than the likely under-reporting North Korea and China, which shoots down any argument the gun nuts have about their fetish being necessary to protect free-dum.

The USA has the highest gun death rate of any first world country, which shoots down the gun nuts’ position that their fetish saving lives.

The USA is, according to the Economist’s Special Investigations Unit, no longer a full democracy, but the gun nuts have not protected free-dum and instead voted in Trump, changing a failing democracy into a hate-filled democrazy.

It is a great pity that that the USA prefers to destroy itself, with the gun nuts leading the charge, [del]one bloody corpse at a time[/del] as many corpses mowed down at a time as possible.

I take exception to the belief that we can’t get the Second repealed. That shortsightedly ignores how very different the next generations of voters will see this issue. It’ll take time and hard work but we’ve accomplished difficult tasks before.

:snip: bolding mine.

I got my first .22 when I was 10. My grandfathers gun handed down to my Dad and then to me. It’s, oh, about 100 years old or so.

If you like to target shoot, and are not doing it just for the BANG. I really recommend a PCP air rifle. Great fun. About half the muzzle energy of a .22. Mine has an 18x scope. Hit dime groups at 100 feet. It’s more accurate than I could ever hope to be. Needs a bench rest. Nice also is to not have to walk 100 yards to the target.

I’ve got one on my list for shooting at the house. The 22 is for our annual family competitions and for not spending much money if I want to go to the range with my friends.

Plan on buying the right compressor specifically for PCP. The one to put air in tires will not work. The special hand pump is fine if you really want some exercise.

I’ve got about $1000 invested in my PCP, but it costs maybe 2 cents to shoot. If you get one, you will learn a lot about it’s ammo/pellets. That’s the secret.