I think Israel wants America to do what it’s doing - keep its head down and shut the fuck up. Nothing we say or do can help anyone.
Oh, I think the current likely post-revolution head of Egypt is probably going to be the best possible leader. No, I’m not even joking. This guy is one of those really inspirational types.
This has been a beautiful revolution. Seeing those protestors protecting the Egyptian Museum in Cairo brought a tear to my eyes.
http://www.euronews.net/2011/01/29/egyptians-form-human-shield-to-protect-museum/
And Alessan’s damn right there. Biden and Obama are playing a tight and careful game and not giving anyone any excuses to blame the US for anything. Just say nothing and wait. This is an internal Egyptian problem, personal feelings don’t mean jack at this level. Except, of course, supporting democracy and the rights of man.
See, that’s one way Egypt differs from every other Arab nation - unlike them, it’s a true nation-state. All the others are basically trumped-up city-states, tribal fiefdoms and colonial mistake, but Egypt has a sense of shared history and shared destiny. That’s what might pull them through this mess.
I’m fascinated that the army has been called out on Mubarak’s orders, but has been welcomed by the people in the streets. Demonstrators are literally riding army tanks and trucks through Cairo, sometimes painting anti-Mubarak slogans on them, happily fraternizing with soldiers. Egyptians feel that the army is theirs–unlike the police. Army commanders are still nominally taking orders from Mubarak, but it’s difficult to imagine them turning weapons on the crowds now.
And that, my friends, is one advantage of a conscription military.
Just watching MSNBC and their reporter in Cairo says they have news from a reliable source Gamal Mubarak has taken his family and flown to London. Have things shifted that dramatically since last night? I wonder if his father will follow soon.
In further news, Mubarak’s wife and sons have fled the country. So much for Gemal inheriting the throne.
Ok some very ill informed person up thread said Turkey has a very large Christian population. According to the CIA World fact book, Muslim 99.8% 0.2 % Christian and Jews and others.
For comparison Pakistan everybody’s favorite target has a non muslim % of 5% almost 10 million people.
To be fair, Turkey used to have a large Christian population until the 1920’s, when they kicked them all out.
Yup!
Anyway, the thread title is really outdated now, IMO. Could this thread be split and focus on Egypt? Say from page 2 of the present thread onwards.
By the way whatever Obama does, the US reputation wise is rather less popular then even Halagu Khan was. As far as influence, its quite a choice, support Mubarak and his regime and forget about ever winning hearts and minds, not support Mubarak you have a wild card, new might not like you at best or be rabidly anti-West or worst case scenario a democracy where the leader actually has to cater to local opinions most of which would go against US strategic interests.
Why do I think US diplomacy in the Middle East circa 1945 to date is going to be studied in future generations as a text book example of how to fuck up.
Well to be fair, there used to be a LOT more Christians in Turkey until Muslim Turks committed one of the most brutal genocides of the 20th Century. It is a freer society NOW maybe but the surviving Armenians will tell you there was a price to be paid, and what’s more it’s still forbidden to discuss the Armenian genocide in Turkey.
But that’s not my central point, which is that Turkey’s long history as part of the Ottoman Empire and generally “the area around Constantinople” has led to there being an lot more contact with and influence of the West, even after the Muslim conquest. I’ts NOT like other countries in the Middle East.
And of course we have every reason to be concerned about what happens in the Middle East. Place is crawling with crazy buggers who like to blow stuff up. Haven’t you noticed?
Well supporting Israel is gonna put us in a difficult position vis a vis the entire rest of the Middle East, and we sure have done it dumbly and blindly, which makes things worse. The Israelis do whatever the fuck they want and we just nod and go along with it, maybe with the occasional “tut tut.” That said, we were doing a HELL of a lot better in the Middle East before we elected that fucking idiot Dubya as President and the crazy former Trotskyite Jews of the PNAC took over our Middle East policy.
Obama got on TV and addressed the world about his thoughts on the situation. How does that constitute “just say nothing and wait”. Hillary is out there, too.
That simply isn’t accurate. There is genuine fears that AK is chipping away at the secularist pillars of Turkish society. The Economist just did a Turkish review, I can’t link to it, but there are serious concerns as to AK’s intentions.
There was question regarding Syria earlier? I am certainly not more of an expert compared to Alessan, but IMHO, Syria is just shut too tight for revolt. They had this type of protest a number of years ago; they were mowed down by machine guns. I see no reason to believe a new protest won’t end the same way.
Plus Syria has no Internet.
One word: Hama.
Here’s one attempt to describe the core demographic of the revolution in Egypt.
Of course, plenty of observers somehow missed that “writing” and suspicion.
And here is an account of ElBaradei’s appearance.
One letter: “s”.
Nope.
Hama, Syria, 1982.