Huh, I’ve had no trouble getting my tetanus booster. I asked for tetanus only last time, because I’d had pertussis recently enough that it wasn’t a concern. But I’ve had a lot of adult vaccines in the past several years (flu, tetanus, hep a&b, some stuff for travel) and never had a problem getting them.
(I haven’t tried in the last 4 years, except for flu.)
I can’t say why it’s hard for you-- when I mentioned to my PCP at an appointment that was totally for some other reason, that I was about due, maybe a couple months over (I’d had my last one a few months before I got pregnant, and my son had just turned nine), she said I could get the shot before I left that day.
I got a specifically adult booster, though, not something that would have been reserved for children/toddlers.
There must be a local public health nursing where you are, if you are in the US. Another place to try is a pharmacy with a “Minute Clinic” type place that offers flu shots and shingles vaccines.
Sounds like your doctor doesn’t have enough call for the adult vaccine to stock it, but will use the childhood vaccine for someone with special risk, like maybe someone who lives with a newborn, or a woman planning on becoming pregnant. You need to find a place that has the adult vaccine.
Before I went to Costa Rica, I went to the doctor, and asked what vaccines I might need. I got a typhoid vaccine, and boosters on all my hep shots. It was a different doctor than the one who had given me my booster for DPT, and she started to tell me that hey, I’d need to make sure that was updated, than looked and saw that I’d been keeping up with it, and was very surprised. She was looking on the website to see if the TB vaccine was recommended for Costa Rica, and I told I had that as a kid, before I went to the Soviet Union.
She couldn’t find on the CDC website how long the TB vaccine is supposed to confer immunity, but decided I didn’t need it.
I have been triple and quintuple vaccinated for a lot of things, because I got extra boosters before I went to the Soviet Union as a kid, then extra ones from the military, plus shots for every childhood illness that had had a vaccine invented since my childhood, so I’ve had Hib and the meningitis shot. I also had some extra polio and measles shots due to outbreaks in my dorm in college, and a mistake in my high school records.
I had smallpox as a baby, because it was still given. In fact, the only vaccines I haven’t had are Gardasil and yellow fever.
I am walking proof that vaccines don’t cause autism.
I have had most of my adult vaccines either in my doctor’s office (my doctor only sees adults) or in the “travel medicine” department, where they do all the immunizations for people (mostly adults) traveling.
We do not have mandatory vaccination for adults except for special circumstances such as being in the military, or for specific diseases in certain workers with a high degree of exposure to the public, including vulnerable people with pre-existing medical conditions. I see no reason to change that for Covid-19. Serious as the current pandemic is, we are not dealing with an outbreak of a disease with extremely high mortality, where a universal mandate might be called for.
I’d support making a safe and effective Covid-19 vaccine required for the military, health care workers and others in jobs with a high degree of mass public contact. Strongly encourage others to get vaccinated (economic and lifestyle incentives will help). Seriously consider adding a proven Covid-19 vaccine to the list of required shots for schoolchildren and college students, given that classroom attendance and dorm living mean that they’re massed in close proximity, making a high degree of herd immunity desirable to protect them, their classmates with impaired immunity or other medical conditions, and the teachers/staff whose lives are on the line as well.*
Incidentally, language counts. It’s good to see that words like “forced” and “coerced” are not being thrown around willy-nilly in this thread any more. Apart from their inaccuracy, using these loaded terms can hardly encourage “vaccine-hesitant” people to get themselves and their kids immunized. Such language is what one expects from antivax pediatricians like Paul Thomas, Jay Gordon and Bob Sears.
Regarding worries about Phase III trials being “rushed” - I’ve seen no evidence that any of the major contenders (such as the Oxford/AstraZeneca or Moderna vaccines) are “rushing” their Phase III trials. There is such a thing as “fast-tracking” of vaccines, where there is intensified interaction between government regulators and vaccine makers in order to speed up approval, something which has been done for a number of vaccines (a recent example is the HPV vaccine Gardasil). Fast-tracking does not mean incomplete/rushed testing, as some antivaxers claim.
*I’m not sure how we got on the Viking Cruises mailing list, but one of their upcoming offerings is a Baltic/Volga cruise in Russia. One of the stops features an exciting monastery tour plus a school visit to interact with children. What a great idea - maybe they’re convinced the Putin Vaccine will end the pandemic in Russia by then.
**Will the pandemic be over in 876,000 hours? Inquiring minds want to know…
Still, huh? Eight years ago I scratched myself on a rusty nail, realized I was several months overdue for a tetanus shot, and then spent hours calling places looking for someone who could give me the shot. Fortunately, there turned out to be a drug store about 40 miles away in Maine who had it.
Sad that it’s still hard to find.
I got the MMR vaccine recently because I read that it might provide some protection against COVID. (I had already gotten it as a child, but the theory is that the live virus primes the immune system in some way that, unlike the specific immunity to measles, mumps, and rubella, doesn’t last a lifetime.) Tracking it down took some doing; I hit up several drugstores that claimed to have it only to discover they were out before finding a clinic that had it.
That’s my biggest concern.
Looks like you weren’t the only one who read that!
I’ve seen no evidence that any of the major contenders (such as the Oxford/AstraZeneca or Moderna vaccines) are “rushing” their Phase III trials.
Yet, they absolutely are. No vaccine has ever made it out this fast, and more specifically, in their Phase III trials, Moderna is only testing their vaccine on 30,000 people who do not have COVID-19. Antibody-Dependent Enhancement (ADE) is a huge concern with coronaviruses, and they are specifically not including the testing population that would expose whether or not the vaccine causes ADE, which would have fatal consequences.
So Covid-19 isn’t so serious? Huh. It seems pretty serious to me.
At least not serious enough? At least to your take not serious enough to warrant taking away the freedom to decide from adults, no matter how much that would benefit both society, the rest of us, and the individuals.
But benefits, which on all counts are agreed by experts that would be much less, are enough to tell parents that they cannot make the decision on behalf of their children and their willingness to take risk for the good of others?
Language counts, yes. Antivaxxers use words like “the” and “should” … I am fine using them even though they have used them. When a person is made against their will to do something, the words “coerced”and “forced” are not “loaded”; they are accurate. And many times there is nothing wrong with coercion by force of enforceable laws. That has brought us seatbelt compliance, traffic laws, food safety, and product safety, pollution controls, and much more.
As far as your advice on convincing vaccine hesitant parents to go along with immunization recommendations… well roughly how many vaccine hesitant parents do you think you’ve convinced or otherwise gotten to comply? Paul Offit I may not be but I’ve reached hundreds.
Actually fast tracking means precisely approving before Phase 3 trials are complete. It is possible to have a dataset that justifies such, at least for certain defined subgroups. It would be a very unusual event. Discussing it now, before any data exists, prepping for a pre-election release and initial distribution, minimally erodes confidence in the process and the institutions.
Nothing helps the antivaxx movement more than that.
Don’t you get tired of hoisting all those strawmen?
Nowhere in modern America is one “forced” or “coerced” into having a vaccine, or into having one’s children vaccinated. If you want to work in certain occupations or at least in particular facilities (i.e. docs practicing in hospitals) you may well need to be vaccinated against influenza or other infectious diseases to protect patients and visitors. But no one is holding you down and forcibly sticking a needle into your arm. Likewise, nobody forces a vaccination on children. If your kids don’t have a viable medical exemption (available in all states) or if you can’t invoke a “philosophical” exemption (still available in many places), you can homeschool your kids and avoid immunization entirely.
I can’t believe I have to explain this to a physician, much less a pediatrician.
“As far as your advice on convincing vaccine hesitant parents to go along with immunization recommendations… well roughly how many vaccine hesitant parents do you think you’ve convinced or otherwise gotten to comply? Paul Offit I may not be but I’ve reached hundreds.”
It’s hard to quantify the effects of activities online persuasion or lobbying at a hospital level, but certainly those of us who’ve worked diligently to counter harmful woo (including antivax efforts) have seen concrete results, like the California law ending all but genuine medical exemptions for immunizing schoolchildren.
I can’t speak to your own successes in convincing the “vaccine hesitant”, but if you’re sharing descriptions of “forced” and “coerced” vaccination with parents, it wouldn’t be surprising if they stayed “hesitant”.
You appear confused about what the “fast-tracking” designation means in reference to vaccines and drugs.
"The Fast Track process can help get new drugs and vaccines approved more quickly by the FDA because they have:
The FDA explains the differing procedures that may be employed to get vaccines or drugs approved more quickly.
Note that fast tracking of vaccines is not equivalent to abbreviating phase III clinical trials, which are the final stage in assessing vaccine efficacy and safety, involving large numbers of trial participants. The possibility of granting emergency authorization of a vaccine before completion of a phase III trial has been floated, but that involves a different mechanism. As said previously, there are risks involved in not completing adequate phase III trials, and no one here has suggested mandating a Covid-19 vaccine before we have confidence that it is both effective and safe.
Feel free to go full Orwellian with your language use.
The current context is the FDA raising the prospect of fast tracking by granting emergency use authorization without completing phase 3. Full stop there.
Your choice to delude yourself that your rants and confrontational stance convince the many vaccine hesitant and reluctant, even any of them, rather than drive them away from having the trust required is yours to make. Fortunately the expert bodies know better than you do and encourage a different approach.
Success is achieved one on one in a relationship with a provider who has heard their concerns without disrespect and who provides the accurate information in a non confrontational manner. I readily admit the process is often exhausting. But my job of getting compliance would be easier if there were fewer like you.
I know though that you know better than the host of experts.
Noted the lack of response to the question about your belief that COVID is not serious enough to require adult vaccine compliance but kids at less risk from the disease and less impact on spreading it are at such serious risk.
Sigh.
Fast tracking is a specific pathway under the umbrella of FDA expedited reviews. Emergency use authorizations are NOT the same thing as fast tracking. Fast tracking does NOT imply abbreviating phase III clinical trials. Nor does it mean rushing a drug or vaccine to market without adequate study.*
Please make use of the educational materials I supplied in my previous post.
Speaking of Orwellian tactics - or maybe just garden-variety misleading - the American Academy of Pediatrics position paper you link to and quote, is notable mainly because it marks the first time the AAP agreed that it is acceptable for pediatricians unable to convince parents to vaccinate their children to dismiss them from the practice.
Reasons for such a drastic step cited by the AAP include the exorbitant amount of time that may be spent trying to convince antivax/“vaccine hesitant” parents to get their kids protected by immunization (detracting from time available to spend on other patients), as well as the hazards posed to other children in the practice by unvaccinated kids (a risk you have consistently pooh-poohed).
If presenting factual information about vaccination and countering antivax myths makes your job harder, then I’d question what your job actually entails.
As to your final gripe, I again recommend you acknowledge issues such as dangers to children and adults with serious pre-existing conditions such as innate and acquired immunosuppression, and hazards posed by settings which crowd humans together and increase the likelihood of disease transmission (i.e youth summer camps**, weddings, raves and so on which have already demonstrated the ability to promote outbreaks). These issues have a bearing on debates on the institution and extent of any future mandates for Covid-19 vaccination.
For those interested in whether to get a Covid-19 vaccine assuming one is approved in the near future, ZDoggMD has an interesting, and I think reasonable take on the matter.
*A good example of (to put it kindly) confusion about expedited review of a drug is currently playing out over efforts by Sen. Ted Cruz and a group of fellow Republicans trying to get the “abortion pill” mifepristone outlawed. Cruz et al are arguing that since the original FDA review of mifepristone involved an accelerated approval process, it was “rushed”, allowing a “dangerous” drug on the market. Of course the truth is far different (drug approval was delayed due to opposition by anti-abortion forces, the drug went through three separate FDA review cycles, and was ultimately approved with restrictions on prescribing and a mandate for post-marketing surveillance studies.
**COVID-19 outbreak at a kids' summer camp may be stark warning
***I know how you like asterisks, so I threw in a few more for you. 
Companies could mandate. Hospitals should. The Army certainly can.
In fact, no one mandates vaccinations. Even in CA, school kids have to vaccinated …to go to public school.
There is a vast different between get vaccinated or you cant come to work and get vaccinated or we shoot you.
I could give a rats ass about the anti-vaxx movement.
However, I do think that all anti-vaxxers should be given the vaccine- and all the rest- at gunpoint.
Does legally require by force of law equal “or we will shoot you” to you? It does not to me.
Do you confuse coercion (such as “if you want this service/privilege/opportunity you need to do X”) with being held down against your will and having something shoved in you kicking and screaming?
No question that companies can coerce compliance by making such a condition of employment and depending on the specific facts on the ground many should when/if a proven safe effective covid-19 vaccine is approved and widely available. Many should be so coercing for influenza vaccination IMHO. I approve of such coercion.
OTOH if the circumstance is that large and wide swaths of the public does not trust that our institutions have adequately performed their role in requiring adequate proof of safety and efficacy and public health need then the state legally requiring it, be it by the OP’s dystopian imaginings, or by simple coercion of requiring it for basic services like public education, would be a poor choice, and have huge negative impacts on all vaccine compliance.
So, what do you think? You seem to be either a anti-vaxxer or a libertarian.
And dont refer us to a previous post.
You keep objecting to everyones post but you dont give your own opinion.
I dont know what you are getting at, besides just raising objections to everyones post.
Your opinion on the OP is that forcing vaccinations upon those who disagree, at gunpoint if needed, is a great idea. Okay.
My opinion on the OP is that the government making a vaccine mandatory, legally required, even if the “force” is not being arrested or being shot, no matter no chipping involved, has a very high burden of proof and of overwhelming necessity, far above the burden to recommend it and to approve funds both promoting it and making it convenient to get. Employers do not have the same level of proof to meet.
Historically American government (both at Federal and state levels) grants parents the rights to make health decisions as their children’s proxy, within a fairly wide range, but also has its own vested interest in the health of children and in the general public good. The bar to act upon that vested interest has to be more than it seems like a good idea, might be a good idea, or it what is what I would do for my child. It has to be solid evidence of significant benefit to the children and/or to society as a whole. Most commonly (not always) requiring a vaccine has included that non-compliance places other children at significant risk of serious harms (hence the justification for requiring it for school attendance). It has been uncommon for vaccines to successfully become required for school entry with large segments of the public unconvinced the vaccine is safe and effective in kids, that kids are otherwise at large risk or otherwise pose a large risk to the community, and that having a huge majority of kids with that vaccine is necessary for the general public good. (Even when such has fairly good evidence to back it up, as is the case for influenza vaccination.) There is no current evidence that supports any of those contentions for a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine currently. Let alone even close to influenza level evidence.
Few states today strongly enforce their school requirements as it is. Stronger enforcement provisions just don’t pass. Outs are way too easy to obtain. (To be clear, I do not think they should be. Enforcement needs teeth.) Trying to shove one on, that might require annual or biennial updates, that fails to solidly meet those bars, would strongly undermine trust from large segments of parents.
The complete immunization program falls apart once the institutions squander the trust that the majority places in them.
Anti-vaxxers murder children, so yes, they can certainly be punished under the law. Forcing vaccinations upon them is a ironic punishment, but prison time would be acceptable. I dont really like capital punishment so the DP is out.
CA used to have easy “outs” but we stopped. Now you have to have a medical excuse.