For anyone interested in a semi-auto shotgun (such as the ones Scumpup recommended), I have heard great things about the Saiga 12. Being a huge fan of the AKM, I am pretty interested in getting a hold of one of these shotguns. European American Armory is importing them.
Probably the best aspect of the Saiga 12 is that they’re priced very reasonably. You can get them for around $500.
Here’s a few links: http://club.guns.ru/eng/saiga12.htm - This is a review. Note that if one orders from EAA Corp, he will probably only be able to purchase the sporterized version. After market accessories are available, however.
http://www.eaacorp.com - European American Armory’s website. Unfortunately, the site is down at the moment, so I cannot link directly to the Saiga 12.
Eh. By “sporterized,” I mean lacking the folding stock and pistol grip. Additionally, most of the EAA Saigas I’ve seen have wooden stocks rather than the evil, black synthetic ones.
My first shotgun was a 12 gage Browning BPS with solid walnut stock. I bought it brand new. It was beautiful.
And that was the problem… it was too nice. When I took it hunting or clay pigeon shooting I was always worried about scratching the stock, getting it wet or dirty, etc. I thought, “This shotgun is useless. I want something with utility. I want an ugly gun. I want something I can scratch up!”
So I sold it and bought a Mossberg 500 with synthetic stock. Best decision I ever made.
CM, I hear you! I did the same thing. (Well, almost. I sold a Marlin .45-70 and used the cash to buy a Mossberg.) My 500 has gone through hell in 3 states, and still gives perfect performance. The stock has scars, but they are honorable reminders of hunts gone by.
That last sounds like fun. I assume it’s also done here in the US. Do they have a “blue collar” version, you think? I know those trap and skeet guys can get kinda snooty, with their $2500 guns and all.
Actually, I’d like just shooting at the clay, I think. What most would call “practice”.
But first I gotta pick up my gun (10 days) and learn how to safely use it.
HA!! You’ll find snootiness in all the disciplines, but that’s just life I guess. Here’s a link to the NSCA. Plenty of good info there. As for a blue collar version, 5-stand is considered it. Most places a hundred targets with the puller’s tip runs about $30-40. 25 targets at 5-stand run about $5-7. To influence your selection further, most 5-stand or sporting clays is shot with over/unders or autos, with Beretta, Franchi, and Benelli leading the way. Most of autos, without being tricked out, run about $600-800.
Went to the range today for the first time. They only have one target (paterning) position, at 30 yds, but that’s ok. I forgot my spotter scope, so for the first 20 rounds I thought I was missing the whole thing. But at the first cease-fire I saw all these itty-bitty holes (and some larger buck shot holes) all over the target, which made me feel a lot better. I know what to take with me now. And I know how the gun feels (good) in action. I’m glad I picked the 20ga for this purpose. I’m confident it’ll do the job.
I’m looking at the Hogue stock mentioned by Unregistered Bull. I have a Hogue on my Ruger Mark II, and I really like it. The stock, er, stock (sheesh) on this gun seems a little short, but it felt better the longer I shot.
So;
How does one measure for LOP (Length Of Pull) for a shotgun?
Oh, and BTW: You should (obviously) clean the gun after shooting. Concentrate on the barrel and chamber, and make sure most (all?) metal parts have a light coating of oil to prevent rusting. About once a year or every-other year you’ll want to do a more thorough cleaning, which means removing the trigger assembly, extractor, etc. But whatever you do, do not disassemble the trigger assembly.
Another Mossberg proponent here. I’ve had mine since I was old enough to hutnt with it, put severla thousand rounds through it.
Autos vs. pumps. Pump needs ever-so-slightly more training, then it becomes second nature. If you don’t store it with a round in the chamber, an auto requires you to move one hand from the firing position to operate the charging lever, where the pump keeps your hand on the forestock.
Some will take issue with the concept of “warning” in a defensive situation. The sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round is an unmistakable message to a bad-guy that he is outgunned.
I hate to repond to a two week old post, but I want to point out that the Remington 11-87 is a gas operated gun. A recoil operated shotgun is less likely to jam or misfeed because there is no gas system to foul. I talked to a few shooters when I was selecting a shotgun, and ended up with a Benelli recoil operated gun. No jams or misfeeds yet, but I’ve only shot a few hundred rounds through it. One thing that did surprise me was the speed of the action. I can fire three shots faster than I ever though possible.
The issue isn’t whether you want to let the guy know you are armed, the issue is going into a situation with a gun that is not ready to fire. It would be an unfortunate time to have a misfeed. The sound of an action jamming and the thud of the shotshell as it hits the floor is an unmistakable message to a bad-guy that you are outgunned.
I guess I’ll ring in here, too. The only reason to prefer either of the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 590 for personal defense is price. Both are absolutely outstanding. Try 'em both out to see if your hands fit one of them better.
Barrel length: Go for 18.25. You can get a federal stamp for a short-barrelled shotgun and legally own in most states. But since you want to retire in a motorhome, this could cause some bad juju with the law in some places. For home defense, where permissible, a 14 inch barrell is worth the extra $200.
Accessories: Don’t worry about magazine capacity. As long as you’re not dressed for the field and don’t have a pair of Labs in the back of the truck, you’re legal without a plug. Don’t convert to a pistol grip. All that does is make a shotgun harder to aim. While precision sighting is unnecessary, sighting down the barrel and shooting is very hard to do without a shoulder stock. A moderate combat-cut stock is OK but don’t go overboard; the reason they’re cut short is to fit body armor more than to shorten the weapon. A mounted flashlight is not a bad option. That’s probably the only time you want something moderately undependable on your personal defense weapon. When it does work, it’s undeniably awesome and when it doesn’t, no matter, the weapon is still 100% effective. A sling is a waste if you’re not going on a 25 mile road march with your recon platoon. Magazine extensions are probably a waste of time.
Automatics: There are some very nice combat autos that are worth a look. Personally, my gaze stops on the Benelli M1. More than a bit pricey, though.
Pistol: I like the Glock 21. Concealability isn’t great but it gives lots of firepower in a simple package and is very controlable, provided you don’t have tiny hands. A S&W K-frame or L-frame revolver is awesome, too, in .357. I keep a round-butt 2.75" Model 65 handy at home. No safety and no need to remember to rack the slide. Just keep pulling the trigger until it starts to click. Two more months, though, until I have enough saved to buy a ported Glock 21. Throw in a couple of 13 round magazines and I’m ready for anything. I am also very fond of the M1911A1. Not for the uninitiated. Lots of training needed for safe carry.
One other thing: the load. I personally prefer my handloaded #8 magnums for home defense. overpenetration is less of a problem. At any home defense range (>10m), though, any thing from 000 to #12 is plenty lethal.
