Agreed. I did the upgrade, and I’m fine with it. Some initial bumps in the road; I had to download a new printer driver.
(I guess that might be a show-stopper for some users, the guys who think the CD tray is a cup-holder, etc.)
It may be your computer, but it’s their software. You don’t own it. It was your choice to purchase and install their software. What you really purchased is not the software, but rather a license to use it. That license came with an end user agreement, that you agreed to, that says they can and will do this.
Didn’t you read it?
That’s not true at all. A lot of the damaging things done over the internet are done by armies of computers with malware that allow someone to remotely control them without anyone ever knowing the computer is infected.
The last time I purchased a Windows operating system there was absolutely nothing in the end user agreement that I MUST download Windows 10, install spyware, and allow them to manipulate my system whenever they wish without any notice to me.
So you’ve never had any issues at all with OSX updates? My Mac-using colleagues always seem to be talking about OSX problems - all the while claiming that “it just works”.
The only hassle is I can’t turn off the reminders to update, but at least it’s asking and not just doing it.
Well, there are two worlds: Mac OS X and Windows (there are other worlds out there, too, like Ubuntu and other Linuces). Using a VM, you can literally run the best released version of both of these worlds on the same physical box, at the same time, hence “best of both worlds.”
You can run the worst of both worlds, too, although you’ll need a VM like SheepShaver for System 6 or so (actually, System 6 was kind of revolutionary at the time).
My Win10 is certainly being evil tonight. It’s downloading some massive update, and apparently the Updater thinks it’s entitled to use 99% of my bandwidth, based on how painful trying to load any web page has become. Never had such a problem with 7.
What a weird thing to say, and wrong. Trojans are still a major category of malware and can turn an infected machine into:
A launchpad for attacks on machines on the same network
A spambot (where the spam carries other malware payloads)
A bot for distributed attacks (e.g. DoS) on public servers
No, it’ll be in the EULA if you choose to download Win10. Which you should do, as it’s a better OS than any previous version of Windows, and the “spyware” and “manipulations” are part of those improvements.
No, I shouldn’t do it because
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my spouse has a few computer-controlled devices that occasionally earn us money that are NOT compatible with Windows 10, so downloading it would either cost us income (due to loss of use of equipment) or cost us money to try to fix the problem, and
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The spyware crap raises issues for writers/artists/other who use their computers for creating works they intend to sell which, again, could seriously F up our already pitiful income stream. Granted, I don’t sell my writing often these days, but it does happen.
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Having Windows choose the download schedule without recourse can also be poison to a small business that may be working on tight deadlines without alternative means to get a job done or much bargaining power with customers. Missing deadlines means lost work in the future. No thanks.
Oh, wait - reliability/protections/etc? We still have a machine running Win97 with no malware problems. Why? It’s not connected to the internet. We might, in the future, get Windows 10 (or whatever succeeds it) for a computer intended for internet-contact but there is no effing way we’re changing everything over because that would really screw some things up for us. Best way to avoid malware spread by the internet is not to connect to the internet. When we’re not using the internet we disconnect from it - an old fashioned notion, but it works for us. Windows 10 is part of the push to be connected 24/7, which is bullshit in my opinion, and certainly not for MY benefit, it’s for the benefit of Microsoft and whomever they’ll selling data to.
As my day job, despite being full time, does not cover all our bills we are dependent on those two additional income streams even if they’re not particularly impressive. Without them, we are bankrupt within a year and probably out on the street.
There is also ample documentation of Windows attempting to trick people into dowloading their Windows 10, which is dirty pool any way you look at it. Offering it for free? Wonderful. Attempting to either force or trick people into downloading it? WTF? That’s what makes me most suspicious - NO ONE does that without some ulterior motive. What is it?
I don’t mean the update process itself, but problems introduced by those updates. I often hear colleagues complain about how the new version of OSX broke certain stuff. (Though these colleagues are scientists, so they may be doing unconventional things on their computers that Apple didn’t anticipate.)
That’s fine as long as it’s not connected to the internet.
I’m not sure what you think the “spyware” - actually, diagnostic and feature usage reports - actually do, but it’s got nothing at all to do with creative works. Firstly, they’re not actually seeing any of your work, and secondly even if they did it wouldn’t effect your copyright.
You get approximately a 10-day window to install updates on the home version, and full control on the business version, which I assume is what you’re using. Learn to actually use your computer, rather than complaining if it does what you tell it to.
And if people actually bothered to update regularly, they wouldn’t have to be made mandatory. Malware, especially ransomware, that shuts down your machine completely or deletes your files is going to do a lot more damage and take a lot more time than a ten minute reboot once a month.
As for not being connected to the internet, it’s no wonder you’re poor if you can’t contact your customers :smack:
The ulterior motive is that they don’t want to support old versions of Windows, as that costs them billions of dollars.
People were “tricked” into upgrading by accepting Microsoft’s offer to upgrade. Some “trick”, being given the option to get something better, for free, and choosing to accept it.
It’s clear you don’t have the slightest clue what Windows even is, let alone how to use it. You are the technological equivalent of an anti-vaxxer, and it’s clearly not poverty that’s your problem (despite your incessant whinging) it’s your wilful ignorance and delusional persecution complex.
What is funny is that a few of the people who go all Conspiracy Theory on Microsoft seem to have no issues with [del]Evil Corp[/del] Google owning everything they know and do.
Ah. I don’t tend to do those if for no other reason than it nags me when I’m doing something else, so I just want the nag to go away.
Defaulting saving items to the cloud is a potential problem.
The original EULA for Windows 10 had some VERY problematic bullshit regarding what Windows felt it could do with anything saved to the cloud that very much would have caused copyright problems. It was amended, but that sort of stunt does not inspire confidence.
From July of last year:
"“We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to”
So, basically, they were reserving the right to ACCESS and DISCLOSE content INCLUDING PRIVATE FOLDERS - yes, that WILL fuck up copyright because I’m losing control of where that content goes and who sees it prior to publication. That does NOT “protect” me. That profits Microsoft.
Then there is the automatic sharing of your WiFi password with other Windows 10 users - don’t know if that’s been corrected or not, but the only person/thing giving out my password should be me.
I’ve been using computers since 1976, I know how to use them. I know well enough that I know that for me Windows 10 is a bad idea. If it works for someone else that’s fantastic for them.
We update (or we did) on a regular basis. We kept our firewalls and anti-viral software up to date (and still do). We have actually had very little trouble over the years because we are thorough with that. What this household does NOT need is a nanny deciding for us what’s best for us - because nanny doesn’t know and honestly nanny doesn’t care about us, only about nanny’s bottom line.
We also do backups at least weekly, and more often if we’re particularly busy.
Try reading that again - we have old machines that are never connected. We have a machine that IS connected, with firewall and anti-virus (it is the very machine I am typing on right now). We also know how to disconnected when we don’t need to be on line. We keep in touch with our customers just fine, thank you, and even advertise on line. On OUR terms, not someone else’s.
Boo-fucking-hoo - I don’t want them screwing MY business because they won’t support their legacy products. As I said - our oldest systems never connect to the internet anymore, we never asked Microsoft to support them past that point.
It’s not like Microsoft hasn’t made billions with those products.
Except Microsoft didn’t want to take “no” for an answer - it was made difficult to opt-out, including misleading notice screens, after a bunch of people publicized how to removed the downloading file from your machine they *re-*downloaded it to people who had already opted out.
So no, you weren’t being given the option of something else for “free”, they were attempting to FORCE people to take it, whether they wanted it or not, even after they had clearly said they did not want it.
It’s clear you have no understanding that Windows 10 does not fit all users. I am not the one forcing a “choice” on others, I just want control of MY machine(s) to remain with ME.
Firstly it isn’t in any way a problem, and secondly it’s trivial to stop it happening. Learn to use your computer.
You really are paranoid. That’s not how copyright works, and they were only ever allowed to access stuff if it was necessary for them to do so - for example, if they had a warrant, or if you were somehow endangering their systems. But, since putting anything in the cloud is optional, that doesn’t affect anyone who doesn’t wish to use it.
It doesn’t share your password with anyone except an encrypted version on Microsoft’s servers - if you allow it to do that - rather, it allows other computers to access your wifi without the user knowing the password. And I guarantee you it would be harder to hack into Microsoft’s servers, then decrypt the password, than to just hack your router in the first place.
But again, if you don’t want to do it, turn it off.
You seem to be stuck in 1976, as far as your understanding of computers goes. If Win10 isn’t for you, use Linux. That will give you the granularity of control you obviously want, and should be simple for an expert of such long standing to use.
You clearly don’t know what’s best for you, the fact that you say you’re no longer upgrading shows that. The world changes, and the world of computing changes fast. You’ve demonstrated in this thread that you don’t have the knowledge to decide what’s best for you, because you fundamentally misunderstand what Windows is, what the cloud is, and frankly what the purpose of a computer is in this millenium.
To an offsite backup that’s somehow more secure, faster, and more accessible to you than Microsoft/Amazon/Google or whoever’s cloud servers? And weekly? It would be trivial for a small business to do that hourly.
I must have misread every single fucking post you write about living in the depths of poverty then, sounds like your business is running fine.
No, you want them to provide you with an OS for free, and keep supporting it, but refuse them when they come to you with an upgraded version that will function better and be kept up to date constantly.
The only people who installed Win10 were those who chose to. Yes, they want everyone on it, because it will save them a hell of a lot of money, but it will also make life easier for everyone else because people won’t have to keep developing for a 15 year old OS that people won’t give up.
Then stay offline. As someone who wants to go online, I don’t want idiots like you spreading malware, getting connected to botnets, or just generally making my life worse because the Web has to be held back to archaic standards your obsolete system uses, and because programs have to be written to those standards.
Or get a different OS. Linux would be the obvious choice for someone as paranoid as you. And it’s free, which I’m sure would appeal to you.
C’mon people, I know that it’s completely irresistible to feed a troll, but at least make them work harder than this one.
It’s not a problem FOR YOU, it is for other people.
Publishers want first publication rights. If something is on the internet they will question that, and authors have been refused sales because of that issue. That’s how it works in the real world.
IF the cloud is never breached it’s not an issue, but these days everyone and everything connected to the internet is getting hacked sooner or later. Someone dumps the content of the cloud onto public servers then any creative work not already sold will likely become unsaleable.
Putting things on the cloud is optional, but given Microsoft’s penchant for re-setting permissions and settings without consulting the user it is quite conceivable for it to happen accidentally and I’m not convinced that you can truly eliminate anything from the cloud. You have to jump through some hoops just to truly erase something from the hard drive on your desk (hence the existence of data recovery techniques and services), there’s no way I could do that for the cloud servers.
No one is going to hack my router because in the larger scheme of things I’m nobody. On the other hand, hacking the servers of a major corporation - like Microsoft - is a juicy target for some people.
But, aside from that - my password should stop with me. It should only be shared by consciously decision to do so by me. Microsoft should not be passing it out to others, encrypted or not.
How about I just don’t install that shit in the first place?
Or maybe I can continue using Win 7 for the time being because it is serving my needs just fine at the moment. Subject to change with time/new information/research on alternatives.
I said we’re no longer upgrading our old machines that are not connected to the internet. We are continuing to update our machine that is connected, especially in regards to firewall and anti-virus software. There are still upgrades being issued for Win 7, we just got a new one a few days ago. Eventually that will stop and we know that. What we have not done is upgraded to Win 10 which somehow offends you.
I’ve already said that the long-term plan is to have a dedicated internet machine which may, eventually, have Win 10 on it. We still upgrade, but we do it on OUR schedule not someone else’s.
Excuse me?
The purpose of the machines I own is to work for me, not the other way around.
I refuse to buy into the notion that my personal information is a datamine for corporations seeking a way to make money off me, or that I should kowtow to what someone else thinks is in my best interests when they clearly have ulterior motives that have zero to do with my best interests.
I want my data to remain with me, not out in some “cloud” that can be hacked by assholes halfway around the world. That doesn’t mean I don’t upgrade, or that I don’t backup my data on a regular basis. I’m not a typical user. I know that blows your mind but we do exist.
We don’t need to do it hourly. You have zero idea what we do here or how we do it. Why the hell would we spend the time to do an hourly backup when that’s not needed? It would be trivial for me to shower hourly, too, but it’s not needed and doing so would be a waste of time. I stated we can do it more often when needed, it’s just not often needed.
Our data back up is more secure than the cloud because it’s not connected to the internet. The only way to “hack” it would be to physically steal the data storage unit. Which is very unlikely. And no, we don’t just throw it in a drawer underneath the CPU. And I’m not going to get into the minutiae of how I protect my possessions in a public forum because that’s just stupid.
Yes, actually, things are getting better for us financially. Like many, you have no grasp that many of those posts were written in the past and things can change over time. We are slowly climbing out of the hole the Great Recession dumped us into.
Bullshit. I paid full price for the OS I currently have, it’s a legal, registered copy. I never asked for and never received an OS for free - not even the one offered for “free”. How dare you accuse me of being a thief.
Reports are, so far, that Win 10 is NOT functioning better than prior upgrades. As stated, for some of what we do here it will NOT function better as it will render vital machinery unusable and Microsoft’s attitude is “suck to be you - you fix what we broke”. And, again, I want updates on MY schedule, not someone else’s.
Why the fuck do I care if it saves Microsoft money? They sure as hell don’t care about what I want.
And no, it will NOT make life easier for those of us who still need 10 and 15 year old machinery that is not compatible with Win10.
Again, you seem to have this notion I’m a thief of some sort refusing to pay fair price for what I get. I don’t deal with bootleg bullshit. I have no objections to paying for what I want but I DO object to being forced to use something not in my best interests.
And, clearly, I AM on line and as I have repeatedly told you I am not spreading malware and keep my protective software up to date. I’m probably less of a risk because I’m not on line constantly. My “obsolete” systems don’t sully your precious bandwidth, and vice versa.
We will probably have to move to Win10 at some point, but that will most likely be the laptop I inherited from my dad which needs a bit of work before being put to use. Also after letting all the new bugs and problems in Win 10 shake out first (yes, that means I will have to pay for a copy of Win10 - I’d rather pay for a working, relatively bug-free copy than be a guinea pig for Microsoft) That will be a stand-alone machine used for the internet and not connected to our other machines. Which is a crap-ton more safe than what most people have.
It’s like Facebook - pretty much have to have some presence on it these days, but mine is strictly minimal and business. I don’t feel a need to spray my personal data and life all over the internet even though I am apparently expected to do so. I’m sure it frustrates the dataminers hoping to make money off me as well. Too bad.
Microsoft is being extremely aggressive pushing Windows 10, because they want to push the Windows App store where they get a cut of all software purchased, they see Apple’s success with the iOS and desktop app store and want in on the action. They also track almost everything you do and send the telemetry back, and this can’t be completely disabled. I would bet that it will be used for targeted advertising eventually if it’s not already.
The good news is that Linux is actually a pretty decent alternative now if you just want to use the internet and edit the occasional word document you’re covered (Open Office is not bad). There is even a reasonable selection of games now due to the efforts of Valve in making Steam available on Linux:
There is many many distributions to choose from but Mint has been getting glowing reviews as the best desktop Distribution.
And for playing media VLC will play pretty much anything you throw at it and is available for Linux. If I wasn’t a mac user I’d be running Linux, I agree that Windows 10 is pit worthy.