Yeah, so? You’re reaching, here. Just because he added the words “great big” in and of itself means nothing. If I say, “I wish I didn’t have this great big blister on my toe”, that doesn’t mean I’d be okay with a little blister.
So what you’re saying is that people don’t hold it against them when companies (or countries) do things they find abhorrent? If the local Safeway endorsed lynching blacks, you’d shop there as long as they had the best prices, right? Isn’t that free enterprize?
Jeff
What does lynching blacks have to do with anything? You really think that is a good comparison?
Let’s pretend.
Iraqi’s control their own oil. The US says we will pay you so much per barrel. France says we will pay you so much more per barrel. They should say no to France?
Lynching blacks was an apt analogy, inasmuch as it’s a position I’m going to assume you would oppose. Thus, even if Safeway is selling tri-tip for 50 cents a pound, you wouldn’t shop there, because you find their views distasteful.
Iraqis, by and large, are a little pissy with regards to France, given that France opposed their liberation, and was one of Saddam’s premier trading partners, including an oil contract that would’ve been absolutely horrid from the point of view of the average Iraqi civilian. Since they hold disdain for France, it’s not so farfetched to think they might not want to deal with them, even if it would be in their short-term financial interests to do so.
Jeff
We say no to Cuba (about sugar, not oil, of course). Prior to the war, every country participating in the sanctions said no to Iraq – Saddam sold at monster, monster discounts to entice buyers to violate the sanctions.
Think of it more directly, and with an eye toward how these big contracts really work.
Suppose that the New Iraq is putting out to bid a big oil-field development project. The finalists are TotalFina Elf and BPAmoco. The bids are within ~5% or so. Elf directly supported the dictatorial regime right up till the last moment. BPAmoco did not. Wouldn’t you be tempted to go with BPAmoco? Wouldn’t you at least want to give BP a last look and a chance to up their bid?
And again, stuff like this happens all the time. China, for one example, routinely gives little plus marks to Boeing or Airbus planes based on whether the EU or the US has been nicer to them recently.
Wolfowitz is simply speaking speculatively, about what might reasonably be expected to happen. And he’s not wrong.
Manny, you post examples, but both of your examples already have thriving economies. Well compared to Iraq’s anyway.
Rebuilding Iraq is going to cost a lot of money, that’s Lot with a capital L. Even at 5% difference it adds up. Shouldn’t they take the best they can get?
France’s trade history with Iraq goes back well-before Saddam’s rule I believe and their work with his regime was thru the ‘Food for Oil’ program - not a ‘backdoor sneaky deal’ as seems to be suggested above.
Iraq may choose to have nothing to do with France but it’s more likely that they will be strongarmed into dealing with the US whether they like it or not - any pretence that they are being ‘freed’ is utter bullplop - they’ve just traded one oppressive regime for another (admitedly a different sort of repression)…
Back on topic - there’s not much to latch-onto in Wolfowitz’s comments really - the true colours of the US are yet to appear in relation to how they deal with installing and working with a new regime in Iraq - only then will we be able to judge…
The United States of America is going to set up a government that is “friendly” to the United States of America. That is not speculation. That is the expressed, stated, spoken, written, manifest intention of the United States of America, both before, during and after the war.
“Friendly” is of course being an euphemism for “puppet”. You can argue with that if you like.
So what is this esoteric talk about Iraq “choosing” to negotiate with the US and not with France because France failed to “liberate” them ? PLEASE ! What are you people talking about ? Iraq won’t “choose” anything !
Seriously, you’ve lost me. Is it your contention that Iraq should be required to choose reconstruction contract bidders based solely on short-run economics? Or do you not understand that when Wolfowitz said “I suspect” he was merely speculating about normal human behavior?
During the the theoretical reconstruction of mannyville, I sure as shit wouldn’t allow Elf, which cut such a corrupt deal with the former dictator of my country, anywhere near my new oil ministry. And I wouldn’t let a Russian government official, whose government financed those lavish palaces and the tools of oppression through their loans, set foot in the country – at least not until the debt was formally forgiven. But again, that’s just me. All Wolfowitz was doing was speculating that New Iraq might make similar kinds of decisions. They don’t have to, of course. One might equally well speculate that Elf has an advantage for at least some contracts – they know where the problems are in many of the existing fields and in the existing refineries. Or that Russia is the best possible financing partner – after all, they’ve proven that they’ll lend to anybody. But again, it’s speculation.
You’ve read way, way too much into the guy’s words.
Well as Elf doesn’t exist any more that is highly theoretical.
TotalFinaElf, largely a Total company in effect, on the other hand singed some MOUs. Corrupt? Perhaps, perhaps not. Total keeps fairly clean hands by all accounts.
They’ve got good experience working in rough conditions, if you’re operating rationally and looking for the best deal, then you bloody well should get TotalFinaElf into the deal.
Now if we’re going for worst-practices standards we can play Manny game, but I’ve seen quite enough of this bullshit in this region to know that is not the route to go.
The Russians did not get a great deal cut on their ‘odious’ debts from the past – nor have other emerging nations – you will not see the Russians willing to cut deals on the basis of poorly informed sentiments. Nor should they, it sets bad precedents that we will regret later on. The debts are going to have to go through the standard Paris etc Club negotiations, with extras for the non-club members.
As for the ‘speculating’… never mind. We shall see in the end what emerges from ‘speculation’ on W.'s part.