Woman blogs about sexual assault at tech conference

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
181

Don’t you know? Women in business casual clothes never get raped. If those filthy whores just covered themselves up, their sweet virginity would forever be intact. Actually, it’s just like those nice women in Afghanistan who never ever get raped, since they are decent women who cover from head to toe.

Apparently they really do think this and it is that rationale that explains why men think it’s ok to paw at me, whisper filthy things in my ear, and flat out assault me.

Absolutely worth being repeated. Do I think the guys on that balcony on Bourbon Street are sick sociopaths? Absolutely not. But that doesn’t justify their behavior any more or any less- they alone are responsible for their actions.

Because I can’t go to the grocery store on a Saturday morning in my sweat pants without having some creeper make a comment about my ass. Or follow me through the store. Or follow me to my car. Or call me a bitch when I rebuke his advances. (Now, I’m not saying this happens every time or even the majority of the time I go to the store, I’m simply saying that there have been several instances in my adult life of such things).

Again, this is worth repeating: **girls dressed like sluts aren’t the only girls that are raped or assaulted. ** I’m not some stunning Playboy bunny hot chick- I’m your average, short, fat, brown haired American 24 year old…and yet, this shit happens to m on the regular, whore clothes or not.

182

I was once groped by guy sitting next to me on the metro. Thanks to this thread, I realize it was partially my fault for putting myself in the presence of the type of man who would do that. Also, I was wearing shorts.

183

Why did you ride the metro without your beekeeper suit on and male escort by your side? Silly girl.

184

What do you care if some creep calls you a bitch (or worse)? Yell louder than him. Keep yelling “STOP FOLLOWING ME! LEAVE ME ALONE!” until the police are called and show up.

You could, when you see that he’s behind you in the parking lot, take his picture with the camera in your phone, then start yelling.

Most likely, with all the yelling, he’d stop and other people would look to see what the commotion was all about.

Make a fuss. Get the police to show up and show them the picture of the guy. Show the store manager the picture, and the security guard. Use the society you live in to help you. The vast, vast majority of us in this society don’t want to see you get hurt, and many, many of us will actively work to stop it from happening.

If he didn’t stop, if he came closer, what would happen if you stabbed him? Most likely, he’d stop to bleed and become familiar with what a hole in his skin felt like.

If that didn’t stop him, what would happen if you stomped his head until stuff started to come out of previously unseen orifices? That usually stops people, right there.

What would happen if you shot him? Wouldn’t that stop the bad situation?

See, you do have options other than “don’t leave home” and “just put up with it”.

You could also stop going to that grocery store, btw. I hear the Kroger up the street has a better bakery, anyway. :slight_smile:

185

More appropriately: why did you sit next to him, and not somewhere else?

What was your reaction? Did you scream and elbow him in the mouth? Start raining punches down on his head? Or did you just sit there and let him do it?

186

Sorry…but you know what my first question would be?
What pissed him off so much to make him do that - what did you do to him?

187

What? You act like the guy was wearing a shirt that read I WILL GROPE YOU IF YOU SIT NEXT TO ME! I didn’t know he was a groper until…he groped me. Before that moment of discovery, he appeared no different than a regular person. He was wearing typical office wear.

Not that it matters anyway, but he sat next to me. So I “allowed” him to sit next to me because I didn’t know he was a bad guy.

He squeezed my leg, I told him to stop (flabbargasted, admittedly. I seriously had a WTF? startled reaction and probably stammered. Mea culpa once again! Need to be articulate at all times, I know!), and smirking like a markass bitch, he ran out of the car as soon as the doors popped open.

Now that I’ve shared that memory with you, why do you think any of this matters? Does it not count as groping if my reaction was less than violent one (elbow in the mouth?..that’s hilarious…I can already see the headlines for that one: Hysterical Woman Violently Overacts to a Man’s Affectionate Overtures and Gets Her Black Ass Locked Up, Film at 11)?

Seriously, break it down for me. I need to know what I did wrong in this situation, old wise one. This is entertaining now.

188

It doesn’t seem like you did anything wrong. I don’t know why you’d think you did. Have you missed the parts where I’ve written several times “you can never be safe and secure”? Or did you just not understand it?

You can do a lot to be more safe, tho (not you, specifically eh; royal you). In this case, it’s kind of like the guy walking down the street who gets whacked on the back of the head by a guy who then steals his wallet and shoes. Not much you could do to prevent it, prolly, as you describe the situation.

But you could have started screaming and beating him half to death, which would have caused enough of a ruckus to get others involved. Heck, you could have done something that would have caused others to intervene such that he had no chance to run away. That would have prevented someone else from being groped, maybe.

Each of us can only evaluate our situation as it occurs, and then react. You did that, and it stopped the situation, so good on you. But you didn’t then control the situation, which is what you should have been seeking to do. That would have ensured that not only were you no longer in danger, but no one else would be either.

This is seriously moving the discussion into new territory here, but a lot of people simply have not put much thought into how to assess risks, how to be fully aware of their surroundings, and how to deal with it properly. Dealing with it properly means that the amount of time you spend as the victim is minimized, while the amount of time that you are exerting control over the situation is maximized. It can be done, and can be done by anyone, with the right amount of thought, preparation and if necessary, training.

Most attackers and aggressive types don’t really like confrontation. They like winning. They like the feeling of power they get by being able to easily assert control over situations and/or people. Remove yourself from their perception of you as a victim, and you’ve already won 99.99% of all potential confrontations. Being ready for that .01% who won’t back down or back away will at least give you a shot at winning that hand, too.

ETA: prolly gonna miss the edit window but here goes: I doubt you’d have gotten locked up, once you told your story to police. If you had, I doubt you’d have been formally charged. If you had, I doubt if you’d have been convicted.

As I said, tho, we all have to constantly assess and adjust to the situations we find ourselves in. And sometimes it’s going to be more important to end the bad sitch and sort it out later. We all have to make priorities, eh.

189

How about another analogy…(and sorry I am not a USAian so my teams might be a bit off)

I am a sports fan. My local team is actually the Canterbury Crusaders (rugby). Say they are playing in the super 14 against one of our traditional rivals Otago. I go down to Otago to watch the game, just one friend and myself. Dressed in Canterbury garb. Enter a pub (bar) packed with Highlanders (Otago) supporters. Can I behave the same way there as I would in a bar packed with Crusaders supporters?

Why or why not?

What if the bar is more evenly split - 50% Canterbury, 50% Otago.

What if the bar is predominantly Canterbury?

For you 'Mercans, perhaps Steelers / Packers might be the equivalent?
For the Brits, maybe a Manchester derby?

At the end of the day, I would moderate and change my behaviour depending on who I was around. SHOULD it matter? Absolutely not, I should be safe from assault no matter what.

But in reality when drink is involved and passions are high I don’t neccessarily trust common sense.

190

It could be said that writing in your blog is the electronic version of yelling “STOP FOLLOWING ME” really loudly and making a fuss.

In fact, I’d say it.

191

As soon as “that type of person” is identified by a distinctive forehead tattoo or other equally distinguishing and highly visible mark women will find it much easier to avoid such people.

Or don’t you understand that such men look exactly like all the other men, and generally don’t advertise their status as scumbags in advance?

192

For a minute there I thought you were going off script by saying I didn’t do anything wrong. But then I read this last bit here, where you tell me what I should have done, after all. Thanks for not surprising me. It’s amazing that I’ve been able to live all 33 years of my life unraped and only rarely molested, without the benefit of your sage advice.

I will have to live with the thought that because I failed to take Snowboarder Bo-approved action, this groper guy is still walking around, potentially groping other people. Although I’m not responsible for my own incident (THANK GOD JESUS), I am responsible for what happens to other people. Because I didn’t scream and beat this guy half to death.

Now you might be asking yourself: How effectively can you with the face beat a grown man who probably outweighs her by at least 30 pounds of muscle? The answer to that question is not very well, but we shouldn’t worry our pretty little heads over that, mmmkay? Now you might be asking yourself: If a man feels no qualms about pawing a woman’s leg without her permission, isn’t it safe to assume that’s he’s a wee unstable and possibly has feel no qualms about knocking her teeth out too? Especially if she’s doing this thing called trying to beat him half to death? My intuition (and my teeth) tells me it’s probably a bad idea for a woman to initiate a punching match with any guy, let alone a boundary-stepping stranger. Like, talk about major risk taking! But I’s a woman, so what do I know?

I’m still trying to puzzle out how a screaming woman beating a neatly dressed guy half to death is supposed be an invitation for the whole train to join in and help her, but I’m going to marinate on this some more. I’m sure the obviousness of this all will gradually dawn on me.

Alternatively, we could stop blaming women for the conduct of men.

193

Or perhaps the type of men that are willing to stand on a balcony, drinking, with no lady friends present and throwing beads at woman in return for a flash of hooter?

Yeah, the chances of being assaulted there are about the same as at your average book group. But then I guess you never know, perhaps reading Pride and Prejudice can get people pretty inflamed.

Don’t get me wrong, Filmore, bears no responsibility for their actions. And their actions are totally illegal and had she gone to the police can and should have been prosecuted.

But I also can’t help but think…

say I go to a bad part of town, walk up to an ATM, draw $1000 in cash, and walk down the street counting it in full view. 3 minutes later I get mugged.

I have no doubt that I would get chewed out by the police and everyone I know for being stupid. They would have sympathy for my injuries, and the police would still look for the mugger, and (if found) he would still face charges and the normal sentence.

But I would still be blamed for putting myself at risk.

To Filmore, do you think the guys would have done the same thing, if (say) instead of Bourbon street the same group was on a balcony during a tickertape parade for a returning sports hero? Or if instead of 6 men, two ladies, the ratio had been 8 ladies + 6 men?

Recognising risky situations and moderating your behaviour accordingly is not victim blaming.

And also, for the record. Recently here in Singapore we had a case where a 19 year old (alleged) gang member was slashed to death by 4 members of a rival gang. There is a pretty decent amount of online commentary blaming him for “taunting and challenging” the rival gang. So yeah, even when ONE unarmed guy gets slashed to death by four other guys, nothing sexual in it, there can be victim blaming going on. It’s NOT confined to only cases of sexual assault.

194

The big difference between “going to a party” and “walking around with a wheelbarrow of cash” is that nobody has any good reason to walk around with a wheelbarrow of cash and indeed I doubt that has ever happened, but women have plenty of reasons to go to parties and millions of women do it every single day…

Actually, sometimes people do basically walk around with wheelbarrows of cash- and society responds. Gentrifying areas quickly sprout streetlights, beat cops and parking garages. We make it safe for people to park their BMWs and wear their nice watches when a sketchy neighborhood starts attracting yuppies.

Anyway, after-hours boozing is an essential part of a number of industries- this is where the real deals are brokered, the jobs offered, and the connections cemented. I know my graduate school has a career-oriented happy hour every week. “Young professionals” socials and happy hours are a networking staple. Going out after conferences is the norm. Someone who does not participate in these things is going to miss out on a lot of opportunities and will be hobbled in their ability to advance their career.

Ok, you say, go but don’t drink too much and don’t do anything provocative. That’s great until you get called a “prude” or an “ice queen.” The fact is that women can’t win. We have to constantly monitor how everyone is perceiving our sexuality in a fruitless attempt to make sure we are hitting the right balance with every man in the room. Can’t have a skirt to short, or it’s “unprofessional,” but we also can’t have a skirt too long. You can’t win. We are not going to be able to make everyone happy.

And what if we want to find a partner (of our choice, of course.) It’s pretty normal to try to meet a partner at a party. And that isn’t going to happen if you are sitting primly in the corner. Being flirty and provocative is the standard way to attract a desirable mate. Is this just way to much for us to ask to be able to do?

None of us are asking to be able to walk naked in a dog collar through the sex offender’s ward at the local prison. We just want to be able to have jobs, friends, and a relatively independent life just like anyone else.

195

Considering 1) sexually aggressive males have been present in every human culture ever recorded, and 2) that for 99.9% of human history, sexually aggressive males have, since before we came out of trees, done better at passing on their genes, making it a trait favorable to natural selection, pretending that this is a “cultural” trait is absurd.

Aggressive male sexuality is part of the human condition. That doesn’t mean it’s okay or acceptable; it does mean that blaming it on “culture” or pretending its eradicable by therapy or education anytime in the next century is absurd.

196

Apparently simply living as a female person is as provocative as walking down a street – perhaps in the ghetto, but perhaps not – flashing around large amounts of cash.

Now that we’ve got that basic idea down, can you all come up with some better analogy that doesn’t reduce the female existence to money?

197

yeah, but Sven (and I know saying this is going to sound horrible) isn’t there a massive difference between sharing a few drinks and jokes and “sitting in laps, squeezing up against people”*?

To continue my earlier sports analogy, there’s a difference between cheering when my team scores and doing a five minute touchdown dance right? Or a difference between a disappointed “ooooohhhhh” when a promising chance is fluffed and a 3 minute tirade against the referee right?

  • I hesitate to use an example from this particular incident, because I will once again be accused of victim blaming.
198

But for the umpteenth time: sure, that’s what she did in the story on her blog, but the reality is that women who aren’t doing those things get harassed and assaulted, too. Regularly. It makes little difference whether she was sitting on a lap or reading alone in the library.

199

Huh?
Am I straight on this.

If I understand your post correctly.

You are saying that I am comparing a woman merely existing, to somebody flashing around large amounts of cash in a bad part of town? Is that really what you are saying?

That I think a woman merely existing deserves and asks for her sexual assault just as much as the guy that flashes big wads of cash in front of a broke and strung out drug addict?

You think that a woman in a Christian bookstore stands the same chance of being raped as the same woman in the sexual offenders ward of the local prison?

I hope not.

It’s stuff like this that tends to stifle debate. People get too scared to comment for fear of being labelled MCP, or accused of victim blaming, or sympathising with rapists or even secretly holding rape fantasies.

Recognising that there are more and less risky situations and modifying behaviour accordingly in no way excuses sexual assault, nor does it blame the victim for the assault.

200

Actually, these things seem about right for a crowded hotel party. I’ve done exactly the same after conferences- especially when there was a specific man I was interested in “squeezing up against.” How else am I supposed to get the guy I have my eye on to go home with me?

Have you ever been to a party?