And while we’re pointing things out, note that another of his cites is equally off-base. His indiscriminate Google search for "“Where Have All the Good Men Gone?” found this article from the Brookings Institution about a recent Pew report on an alleged “dearth of marriageable men”.
But what LinusK failed to notice was that the article actually debunks the report’s faulty premise, finding that statistically speaking, there isn’t any dearth of “marriageable men”:
Latching onto a single weird point from an extremist you disagree with makes it awfully easy to argue a position, but it seems like a waste of time and energy when the vast majority of the people you are arguing with don’t hold that extremist position.
Feminists have always been punching down. But whatever.
“The nuclear family must be destroyed, and people must find better ways of living together. … Whatever it’s ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process. … “Families have supported oppression by separating people into small, isolated units, unable to join together to fight for common interests. …” – Functions of the Family, Linda Gordon, WOMEN: A Journal of Liberation, Fall, 1969.
"We can’t destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage. " – Robin Morgan, “Sisterhood Is Powerful,” 1970, p. 537
“No women should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Women should not have that choice, because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one” Feminist Simone de Beauvoir, Saturday Review, June 14, 1975.
“Only when manhood is dead - and it will perish when ravaged femininity no longer sustains it - only then will we know what it is to be free.” – Andrea Dworkin. “The Root Cause,” speech, 26 Sept. 1975, at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge (published in Our Blood, ch. 9, 1976).
“I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” – Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.
“Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women’s movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage.”
Sheila Cronin - “Marriage” (1970), Koedt, Levine, and Rapone, eds., HarperCollins, 1973, p. 219)
The destruction of families - and especially of families with fathers - has been a feminist goal for 50 years or more. According to the Census Bureau, half of adults today live with a spouse, down from over two thirds in 1967.
The effect on women isn’t great (anything that hurts men ultimately hurts women too), but the effect on children is worse. The effect on daughters is bad, but the effect on sons is even worse.
But effect of fatherlessness isn’t limited to school:
Children of single-parent homes are more than twice as likely to commit suicide:
Growing up without a father also increases the likelihood of committing crime:
And yet you don’t condemn it, either.
Why should s/he? The whole media/net culture of “here’s someone presumably on ‘your’ side being extreme: why don’t you condemn it” generally leads us nowhere.
I condemn it, and other extremist crap. So do the vast majority of the feminists I’ve ever known or spoken to or read from. I’m unable to read every position every extremist has ever held in human history, or even every position every extremist feminist has ever held, so I’m unable to specifically condemn every single position anyone has ever held that I disagree with. If that’s what you require than you’re going to be unsatisfied.
If all you want is extremist positions to argue with, I’m sure you’ll find many. If you want to actually discuss and debate feminism with the feminists on this board, then you’re far better off going by what we post rather than what random internet people post.
Once more, revealing insight into the quagmire of your logic…
You cite examples of radical feminist ideas from 40 to 50 years back; Quotes from radicals most people have never heard of, nor would likely agree with. Then you cite recent statistics on single parent families in an attempt (I assume) to show causation. Yet you make no attempt to factually show that the extreme feminists you cited earlier have a direct bearing on the divorce rate in today’s society. You simply want everyone to believe that this connection exists. :dubious:
I’m tempted to comment: ‘You can’t be serious!’ But I’ve read enough of your thinking on the matter to already know the answer.
I do not know if I condemn any offensive speech either. As a Libertarian, I believe that offensive speech against anyone should be permissible.
Of course in modern society there is much more offensive speech generalizing men.
Cite, please.
CCitizen I’ve seen you make remarks of this nature a few times now. (Bolding added for clarity). Can you provide any stats/cites that support your premise that men are more often the target of offensive speech than women in modern society?
Any greeting card section plus Mainstream Media.
Condemning a statement doesn’t mean one believes it should be banned or legally sanctioned/prevented. I disapprove and condemn many assertions, but I would oppose any effort to make it illegal to make them.
If someone looks at the Mainstream Media, they would probably see ten negative stereotypes about men to one negative stereotype about women.
Are there any scientific studies on the subject with a good sample size? I have looked for them for years and did not find anything.
Your opinion is duly noted. Shame you can’t back it up with facts.
He’s also unable to parse a distinction between being against nuclear families, and being against the concept of families altogether. Also, apparently, in his head being against marriage means being in favor of single-parent households.
Random internet people? They are the ones that founded and led feminism. You are the random internet people.
I’m not a libertarian, but as a liberal, I also support free speech. Feminists, on the other hand, do not. Which is one of the reasons they’re not liberals.
I’ve long since given up hope that feminists have the ability to abstain from ad hominem attacks.
You should still be ashamed of yourself, though.