Come again. I can’t answer nonsensical questions.
Maybe this little number from Disney will help clarify some key points you seem to have never internalized.
The Circle of Life from the Lion King
I have honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make either unless you don’t understand anything about wildlife management, conservation and competition among species for resources in general.
okay… here’s kopek’s original full statement, since going back a page seems to be an issue…
What resources and abilities do you suppose he’s talking about? The fact that they can walk in front of an SUV and die?
Then you should check out that jewelry store in Neenah Wisconsin, the one that has camo wedding bands.
So you’ve met my dog, then. :barfysmiley:
Huh? He just asked if his opinion was sexist. It is.
Setting aside boar and other predatory game animals – they can do what they have already done in most places (at least those that allow hunting). Develop a respect and fear of human beings and learn how to avoid them. And judging from the success rate of hunters in this state, they are damn good at it. Its why they call it hunting and not harvesting or killing.
Funny you should mention deer and SUVs. Near here is a community called Fox Chapel. For the longest time the entire place was closed to hunting. The deer population did just about what you would expect and grew out of control. Property damage and vehicular damage also grew out of control. Trapping and moving deer was attempted until someone realized that most of the trapped deer died before they could be relocated. Various other schemes were floated such as tranqing the deer and implanting birth control. Finally, with nothing showing any positive results they decided to open limited hunting. The number taken is nothing in the greater scheme of hunting here in PA but the oddest result has cropped up. Property damage is down, vehicular accidents are down, and the estimated number of the herd is still about the same.
They learned. All of a sudden, the sight of a person may be accompanied by a loud noise and one of their number not being around anymore. They learned to avoid being seen by people. They learned fear. And everyone, even the deer, wins.
Dumb animals? Those are the ones we semi-domesticate or out-and-out domesticate. Actual wild animals are smart; smarter than most hunters. And resourceful enough to take care of themselves in a fair chase situation.
[QUOTE=Rachellelogram;16900088 Sport hunting, especially of inedible exotic creatures (like lions or tigers) churns my stomach a bit–I still think it’s OK, rationally, because people should be able to engage in whatever legal, enjoyable activities they like.[/QUOTE]
I dont think hunting lions and tigers is legal.
I’m also going to be extremely impressed if my woman hunter friend comes back with a lion or tiger!
I’m not sure how the devolved into a fight over who was smarter - man (or I guess in this case woman) or deer. Frankly I think we can all agree if deer were given the same educational opportunities as man - they’d do just as well.
Also - not sure what a “fair chase” situation is. I’m pretty sure no one is disputing that a deer can outrun a human. Man without a weapon wouldn’t really be deer hunting - it would be deer watching.
Agree; that was excellent, Shagnasty.
Huh? You’re making absolutely no sense. What point are you trying to make?
It is in some countries, to hunt lions anyway.
It bloody well shouldn’t be, but it is.
It plays havoc on the local ecosystem, as the places that permit it wind up with a really messed up predator/prey balance, generally very inbred animals (as they’re in fenced ‘game reserves’ of limited area, with no thought of genetic management) and have a weird messed up pride dynamics, as the idiots who come to shoot a lion in what’s basically a large, badly run safari park always want to kill the biggest males, which are of course in limited supply.
They don’t even add money into the local economy either- most companies who organise these trips are US owned and run, so the only money making it into the country where the trips are run is often the bribe paid to get permission for the ‘game reserve’ in the first place.
The practice of always killing the biggest males causes knock on genetic effects down the generations as well, even for commoner species- killing the most successful animals adds whole new evolutionary pressures, and can actually reduce the average size of the species (this is already visibly happening with some fish species- really there should be a maximum catch size, to try and reverse the effect, or they’re just going to keep on shrinking).
I have no problem with hunting common species for food (and I don’t eat meat)- it’s better for the animals and the environment than modern intensive farming, and frankly there just aren’t the big predators keeping the population in check any more, but I do have a big issue with trophy hunting.
Fine! I won’t show you my family albums.
Yeah, it’s rather drab, if only it come in tyedye.
I have never hunted or fished. Don’t like the idea of it. Doesn’t matter the gender.
Won’t argue with this, I appreciate the role of the respectful hunter.
What makes me cringe are the hunters, as seen on TV esp when they are all breathless with awe at spying their prey, they pause to admire the majestic animal before they kill it and then pose grinning ear to ear with the bloody trophy. I find it obscene and don’t get it.
Contrast the trophy hunter with those folks on that Alaska homesteaders show who are handy with a rifle in the bush, same end result, a dead animal, but its a resource not a trophy for the den. okay maybe they get a bear claw necklace out of it…
Mountain lion hunting season(s). Utah, Colorado, Nebraska, Idaho, BC… those are just the first I saw listed.
Mountain lion /= lion
I get this. Male or female, many participate in real hunting. As for “hard work” part, sometimes it’s a relative concept.
Around here,“hunting” can be a bit of a misnomer. There’s almost no actual stalking or hunting in the real sense of the word. No tracking at all. In fact, there’s hardly any walking.
Hunters dress up in their bright orange vests, ride a pick-up or ATV down a logging trail, jump off, spread some carrots near a blind and go sit in the blind and eat snacks. When the deer wanders up to eat the carrots, he or she is close enough to the blind for the “hunter” to squeeze off a guaranteed shot. Next step is to pose next to the dead animal for the brag photo, then pay someone to drag it out. String it up next to the camp for more photos, then drape it over the hood or trunk of your car or pickup and drive home. Pay someone to butcher it.
I won’t even go into the canned hunts, where the deer are corralled into a small compound on a farm and the hunter just sits on a chair and fires a gun.
I dunno. Never got the attraction or sportiness of the whole endeavor when it doesn’t involve actual hunting.
Not sure what distinction you’re trying to make between the mention of big cats, especially since I see you made the same point about there being a season for African lions, whether you agree with it or not.
Rachellelogram referenced her disdain for the sport hunting of inedible exotic creatures.
Are you suggesting mountain lions are either plentiful or edible?
As a hunter I personally agree with Rachellelogram that game animals are acceptable but I draw the line at hunting without need just for trophies or sport. Mountain lions decidedly fall smack dab into the middle of that. In reference to Ambivalid’s post, they’re legal to hunt in places but many of us, men and women alike, choose not to.
I knew it must be legal somewhere, after the controversy with that female newscaster who posted this picture. Warning: dead trophy lion.
Hold on, hold on. I feel like Ethilrist and Shagnasty are totally talking past each other, and I don’t feel like it’s necessary, because they both have very valid points:
Point A: There really aren’t any “resources” or “abilities” that deer or lions or what-have-you can come up with over 360 days. I mean, that comment of kopek’s was a little weird. So what if you hunt only five days a year…? with a bow, blindfolded, on one foot, etc. They only have the same resources they did last year - run away or poop or maybe attack you. And plenty of hunters out there who hunt with a gun. It’s almost like kopek was implying the odds were even, that the animals had an equal chance. Which obviously, they don’t!
Point B: There are way too many frickin deer around! No doubt about that. Hunters sometimes are doing the right thing. I actually don’t really have a problem with that. As I implied in my first post, the thing I don’t like about hunting is that too many people treat it as an excuse to go out in the woods with high-powered rifles and act irresponsibly, get drunk for three days and then act like they can shoot straight. Real hunters of course don’t do this.
Point C: But obviously not every animal needs to be hunted, and no one can deny there are hunters everywhere who hunt for sport or hunt animals that are endangered/at risk/or just for fun. Hunters up here can often be like JuliaSqueezer says - there is no real “hunting” involved - just bait for a stupid animal and then act like you somehow chased it down and wrestled it to the ground.
The thing is, it’s the latter sort we hear about the most, simply by virtue of the fact that they are the boasters. The hunters that go out to put meat on their table generally don’t boast. They are doing it maybe because of a love of the sport, but also because they need to eat. They don’t just hunt for no reason and then drive into a McD’s with a giant moose head on their cars.
ETA: That photo of Rachellogram’s is kind of what I mean. That is a beautiful beast. I guess I don’t really see why she should be proud. She has a big giant rifle she used to take it down. Yeah, good on you. Nice job.
