Why couldn’t you stop?
My ex went to Latvia for a job opportunity. She was supposed to be there three months but by the time we ended it she’d been there eighteen. She was already fucking another guy (she felt the need to tell me this on the last day we saw each other) before she’d even moved her shit out of my flat. The realist in me realises that they would have been fucking for some time previously. However, weirdly, I don’t hold any malice towards the other guy. He’s probably very nice. I am sure the ex told hime lies about the state of the relationship which made him feel less guilty about it.
She, however, is a cunt that if I never meet her again it will be too soon. Having been through that, I could never afflict it upon a fellow human.
I don’t get these people who think cheatinng is horrible bad stuff but the thing to do is to go through a divorce and then it’ll all be okay. These people are saying things like a promise is a promise, blah blah.
Well it’s my understanding that in the typical marriage ceremony there are two promises. There is forsaking all others and there is till death. So breaking one’s the same as breaking the other, as I see it.
If that was brought out somewhere else in this thread, well I missed it.
Toughest lesson ever, but yeah. I agree.
Cheating is a shitty thing to do, but no worse IMO than all of the other things that couples routinely do to each other. All of which also constitutes breaking vows and promises. Things like, belittling or physical and emotional abuse, gambling, alcoholism or drug abuse. I have a friend who could not control her spending, was secretly getting credit cards (when she destroyed her own credit she got some in her husband’s name). Ultimately, they ended up declaring bankruptcy.
I’ve never cheated; done shitty things, though. I suspect we all have. I try very hard not to judge people unless I have all of the facts. Which is pretty much close to never.
So what? Ultimately, “forsaking all others” is the one that counts. Once that gets broken, I think it’s fair to break the other.
Another thing I’d like to add is that I highly doubt most of the cheating is done out of spite or revenge. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but I find it far more likely that people mostly just do it for their own personal enjoyment.
Is that what you would call a monster? No. I’d simply call it being untrustworthy.
Really? That, to you, is the only fundamental part of a marriage vow that counts?
No. I’m sure there’s much more to it than that.
But if you notice the passage I quoted, you will see that Little Cat Z says there are two fundamental promises in a marriage. I’m simply stating that of those two, I only think one is actually relevant.
That’s not her point. What she is saying is that if you married someone for love, but it turns out to be a horrible mistake, people here are saying that the “honorable thing” is to divorce them, NOT to have an affair.
But what if they haven’t done anything wrong, they just aren’t who you thought and you don’t like them very much? Isn’t divorcing them, openly and honestly, just as much a breaking of your vows as having an affair is?
I am not sure I agree with her, but it’s a valid point: leaving someone high and dry is ALSO causing them horrible pain, and it’s weak sauce to act like you’re a fine person just as long as you were honest the whole time.
I see now. That’s what I was saying earlier about people not really understanding themselves well enough to make that big of a commitment. The thing is that people don’t have much of a choice. Marriage is what we do. Single and lonely, or married and miserable.
I can honestly say when I cheated it had a lot to do with seeing my father being taken advanatge of and not doing anything about it because of 6 kids. I felt I didn’t want to be a sucker so I would cheat to make myself feel I wasn’t being made a fool of.
But divorcing is at least honest, which cheating isn’t. Plus it lets the other get out of the marriage and find someone who actually likes them.
I don’t recall a “till death do you part” in my ceremony, but we got married in the Ethical Culture Society, so the ceremony was rational. 
It is working out that way anyhow.
Indeed, it is both sides accepting that something went wrong and trying to go forward with it.
Anyway, I wasn’t married so for me it was just the unwritten trust that comes from being together with someone for a decade that was broken.
I see what you’re saying, but I just don’t believe that all betrayals are equal. I know many couples who’ve gone through divorces, including three very recent ones who got divorced because one of the parties was no longer “in love” with his/her spouse. And the ones who’ve been cheated on are universally more angry, to the point of bitterness, and have a harder time “moving on” than people whose marriages have ended without that element. I mean, if you’re going to leave a nice person by all accounts, why not let them leave the marriage with their dignity intact?
I’d go so far as to recommend to anyone who is getting divorced because he/she has met someone else, to leave that part out if at all possible, in order to spare your spouse that added stress.
I tend to agree: I was just translating between posters who were missing each other’s point. That said, I do think it’s true that when you leave someone, you often are causing pain and hurt, and you’re an asshole if you lie to yourself about that, or try to rationalize away your own culpability. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it, but you shouldn’t kid yourself.
By way of analogy: I am switching jobs after 11 years. I have a particular friend at work who is emotionally unstable and who really trusts and depends on me. Me leaving is awful for her. I have a right to leave. I can’t be expected to stay at a job for 20 more years just to provide emotional support and stability for her. She wouldn’t expect me to. But me leaving her is hurting her, and she didn’t do anything to deserve that. I don’t regret that I am going, but it sucks, and just because I am not doing anything wrong doesn’t mean that her pain somehow isn’t real.
Also, divorcing your spouse gives you the opportunity to ask for permission to break that promise. Thats why I think people say its the better option.
Cheating, by definition, does not give the same opportunity.
From earlier this year:
I would guess that it became ok about the time marriage vows and marriage ceremonies with 100+ in attendance were invented. Seriously, the idea that others shouldn’t judge a divorce is a pretty new invention. Society has traditionally had an interest in continuing marital partnerships.
Wikipedia’s entry on Marriage vows does not include the word forsake. One classic formulation is here: I, ____, take you, ____, to be my lawfully wedded(husband/wife), to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part. I don’t see anything in the vow regarding fidelity per se, which I readily concede is awkward. I see a lot in there about not being a jerk though, and caring for you partner.
I was intrigued, so I pulled three sample ethical cultural vows from the web: “______, will you receive ______ as your lawfully wedded wife/husband? Will you share your life with her/him, hold your love firm, and dutifully care for her/him in all the varying circumstances of your life?”
“______, will you have ______ as your wife/husband, to live together in marriage? Will you love her/him, comfort her/him, and honor her/him, in sickness and in health, in sorrow and in joy, as long as you both shall live?”
“I, ______, choose you, ______, to be my wife/husband. I will respect you, care for you, and grow with you, through good times and hard times, as your friend, companion, and partner, giving the best that I can, to fulfill our lives together.”
Read more: Wedding Vows: Ethical Humanist Wedding VowsTheKnot.com - http://wedding.theknot.com/wedding-planning/wedding-ceremony/articles/ethical-humanist-wedding-vows.aspx#ixzz2X4MyJ100 Notwithstanding my first comment, I’ll confess that I prefer the ethical culture formulations over the traditional ones.
Cheating sucks. End of. If your partner is not providing what you wish for simply have the balls/ovaries to talk about what you want/need/lack from them, and if you don’t come to an agreement – don’t really care which one, just one that you both accept/honor – be HONEST and don’t go behind anyone’s back. Break it off. End of.
All else becomes sadistic, whether you “mean” it or not. You are causing a LOT of unwanted pain.
Interested as in it somehow affects society, or interested as in gossip columns?