There are a few different ways the word ‘butthurt’ can be taken. I choose the least offensive: imagine the way a child feels after being spanked. It isn’t offensive.
I’ve been with my boyfriend since I was very young, he’s quite a bit older than me and an unusually kind and sensitive person. And he is about 1000x more paranoid about the intentions of men than me. He seems to think the vast majority are animals, frankly, and doesn’t trust them to be alone with any woman he cares about, or any women at all. Because he has a sister, and has had many female friends, and many girlfriends over the years - and they have been consistantly hurt by men, too often men they should have been able to trust. Being with him has made me much more cautious.
I can’t believe you think women being frightened of you is them treating you ‘like scum’. Let’s be reasonable here.
Yes. I think it represents the whole issue quite well.
And we are all different. I’d probably think a guy commenting on my purse or shawl or haircut to be a little odd (you’d like as not go into the gay category), but a compliment to my taste in aesthetics is as valid to me as an interest in my book.
In both cases you’d probably get a polite, but cold response - but I wouldn’t think you were creepy. I just don’t do a lot of small talk with strangers under normal circumstances. But you never really know. I’ve made plenty of chit chat with people on airplanes, sometimes waiting at the airport, and sometimes at conferences.
Stranger complementing my looks - as in “nice legs” or “pretty eyes” or “beautiful smile” or “whatta rack!” - pretty much universally creepy.
And how do you know that the woman making the same comment isn’t a bull dyke wanting to rape you with a strap-on?
Think about it.
As I said, that’s different.
From this side as well.
Man speaking, voted as one at the bottom.
Many years ago, out of sheer necessity, our best friend was working the graveyard shift as “front desk person” at a motel in a fairly seedy part of town.
She’d only been at the job for a couple of weeks when two guys burst into the office late one night. Nylons over their heads, guns. While one guy ransacked the office and back room, the other one grabbed “Jane”, threw her to the floor, got on top of her (on his knees, straddling her), gun right in her face, started grabbing at her skirt. She knew she was about to be killed.
At that moment the guy’s partner came back into the front, said “Let’s get out of here” (or whatever) in an urgent tone of voice. Jane’s assailant stopped for a moment, then delivered a vicious punch to her face, got off of her and left with his accomplice.
Jane’s physical injuries were “only” a badly bruised left cheek and eye. Psychologically- obviously, she was very badly shaken, quit the job, took a self-defense course at the Police Dept; She’s a very capable, confident woman, and over the 20+ years since the attack, she never mentions it.
I don’t know why I’m telling you this.
Oh- I don’t know if this is germane to the poll, but Jane is attractive (face and figure) in a “normal” non-glamourous way.
They always do.
Since 99% of rapists are men, it’s pretty unlikely.
Think about it.
Well maybe you should start your own thread about how oppressed and marginalized you are because when you approach a strange woman in a dark alley, she quickly walks away.
The next time someone claims something amazing about the brainpower or class of the Dope, I’m going to quote this post.
Speaking of brainpower and stuff, I’m baffled about something.
Some of us are some old ladies, grandmothers. We’ve seen the elephant and heard the hoot owl. Surely we’re considered wise to the ways of the world? I can see a person doubting a fresh green kid, but … do men really think the old experienced women are exaggerating about this stuff ? Seriously.
Exactly. I’m not some drama-loving 15 year old. I’ll be 40 in a few weeks and I find I’m feeling more and more angry at the dismissive attitudes.
I actually can not count the number of times I’ve been molested, abused and assaulted. I have a right to be leery.
Just today at the pool, I was in the sauna with about half a dozen people. One was a man who wasn’t one of the regulars and he kept staring at me. When I would look at him he wouldn’t even try to pretend to not be looking. Once a couple of people left I left as well. I certainly did not want to be alone in a dark sauna with a man who was making me uncomfortable even with lots of other people around.
Some people here think that that is me somehow treating the guy like “scum” and being over paranoid.
You know how it is. The thirty-three women on this message board who have been raped by someone they thought they could trust are all outliers. It hardly ever happens!
It’s not so bad when people are extra cautious about being physically alone with me. It’s when they do so on behalf of a friend when they are not invited that screams “obsessive misandrist worrier” to me.
It’s interesting that the other big complaint besides the physical safety aspect is the shame with which society supposedly views rape victims. The feeling of being ostracized for your gender is pretty powerful too. So don’t compare physical safety to “men’s widdle pwecious feelings”, compare it to the supposed social stigma of being a rape victim.
And that’s not even the men who are actually accused by the law of rape. Between that and the automatic wariness, I’d say it hurts mens feelings just as much as womens to the extent that the feelings are caused by social views rather than actual violence.
“Stranger” and “man I thought I could trust” are not the only two options. You can be assaulted by a man you know and don’t particularly trust.
I would like to think there are no grey areas with sexual assault, but in my experience, there are a lot of shades of grey. I don’t know if I’ve ever actually been sexually assaulted. One guy I had met earlier that night at a club and then he and his friends and me and my friends all went back to my house, and, well, if we’d been alone I’m pretty sure he would have raped me. As it was, you would not believe what he did to my neck (hickies). That may sound silly and not like a big deal, but you would have had to see it, and it HURT. I was telling him to stop and he wouldn’t. Eventually I started yelling for my friend, because I was getting really scared. Dude was crazy. The next day he left me a voicemail where he demanded that I call him, and called me a bitch. Hmm.
Then there was a sex buddy of mine. One time I repeatedly told him to stop, and he wouldn’t. I guess that could be considered rape, and probably would be, but I don’t know, because rape can be a lot worse than that, and it didn’t really feel like rape to me, although it did piss me off and I never saw the guy again.
Oh yeah, and then there have been a couple times I was, if not unconscious, at least VERY close to that. The guy was drunk too, but not THAT drunk, so where is the line drawn? I don’t know.
So, I don’t know how to answer the poll. But I’ve definitely had some experiences that were wrong to some extent. And I think the same is true of just about any woman who has spent some time going to bars/clubs or hanging out with friends-of-friends, or whatever. I have nothing but respect for the men who would never even do anything that’s in a light grey area (that SHOULD be the norm but it’s not), but women have no shortage of reasons to assume the worst, and if that offends you, then take it up with your fellow men.
I’m not quite understanding “on behalf of a friend when they are not invited”.
I don’t doubt that men’s feelings are hurt, and I do have some sympathy. But don’t blame the women who are reacting with caution/fear. Blame the men who made them that way. Be angry at them, not us.
Quartz, Kyla gave a wonderful response to your post and I back what she said 100% - but I do want to respond, myself, as well.
I’m trying to understand what you mean. I’m not trying to read a subtext or overthink anything, I’m just confused. Are all of these types of statements supposed to be appropriate then? Or do they all deserve a polite response, even if they are obviously impolite and include obscene language? And what is a polite response? A smile and ‘thank you’? Is ‘please leave me alone’ impolite? I am not trying to mock you or ridicule your arguments, I think I’m just not getting something.
I did pick that up, and I shouldn’t have said ‘he’ in my post because I can see that it gives a wrong impression of what I was trying to say. If an adult stranger approaches me with a comment on my physical appearance, it’s inappropriate and creepy. Regardless of gender. Period. I have absolutely experienced inappropriate comments from women and they made me feel very uncomfortable.
There is definitely a difference between wearing a shirt that specifically shows I am interested in a certain band or television show or movie and having “a nice smile”. One of those I choose because it represents my interests to the world. The other is something that is a physical quality about me that I could not change and do not choose. The important thing here is choice. Can I stress that any more?
Also: I will only be polite if the other person is polite to me. Comments on my appearance - have I said this enough times? - are rude, they are impolite, that person - man OR woman - is being IMPOLITE and INAPPROPRIATE.
It’s certain more aggressive strains of the actions, if they were done by another man, would definitely be called “c***blocking”, but when it’s done by another woman it’s sort of a grey area.
Now, I have to admit, I’ve done this myself as a man – exactly once, but it was on the prompting of a group of several worried females. As I turned the corner of the alley, the woman the other girls were worried about walked around the corner, coming back right next to the questionable man looking completely unworried. So I came off looking like a paranoid jerk myself (and quite possibly a c***blocker since I’m a guy), but on the other hand, a semi-deserted alley in the middle of the night is questionable.
Oh, it’s definitely a combination of both. But there aren’t many posters to the SDMB who support rape and harassment. I would say there are none, except that when you read certain posts from certain possible angles it can read like harassment. But they tend to not be very well received by this crowd.
I’m sorry you feel this way. Genuinely. I think it is massively unfair to the vast majority of men, who would never, ever dream of forcing themselves onto a woman.
But take a look at the poll results and consider what our options are? What should women do? Is it better for us to take no precautions, to not shy away from strangers? I doubt that any serious consideration of the problem will lead you to that result.
If you think there’s a better way to handle this, I would sincerely like to hear it. It does not make me feel good to know that men have their feelings hurt, and if there’s a way for women to a. stay safe and b. not offend any men, I’d love to know what it is.
Ah, I see. Overzealous women friends trying to “protect” another woman. Thanks for the explanation.
This this this THIS. If you don’t take precautions, well, you were stupid and it’s at least partly your fault you got raped or assaulted. If you do take precautions, you’re treating men like scum. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.