I just wanted to chime in and say how sorry I am that this is such a common experience for women. I’m a 30 year old guy and I like to think that I have always had a basic understanding of what women go through, but it takes threads like this to give me a more complete understanding.
Even though threads like this always seem to end up this way there is one positive thing that I get out of them (and this is a purely selfish thing): one thing that I struggle with is thinking that women think that all men are assholes. I’ve mostly broken that thought pattern but I still have those thoughts from time to time. Reading threads like this one always make it clear to me that women don’t hate men at all. They just hate the assholes who hurt them.
Did you also get that from this post below? I was shocked when this was apparently written in response to several men in thread who were out of line. And with several women chiming in afterward to say “hear! hear!”. This has been one of the worst threads I have ever seen in more ways than one. I mean just read this shit below.
It’s truly amazing to me what is allowed in this forum and what is not.
I, as a man, reading CCL’s post, understood what she meant and the analogy she was trying to make. It’s true that as men, some of the things which we don’t mean in any threatening way may be perceived as such when viewed from the perspective of women. If you can’t get past the analogy of men as dogs in this context, then nobody can help you.
Since “wow” doesn’t really tell me much about what you find “truly amazing”, perhaps you’d like to elaborate. Or not, I’m not sure if I want to listen to what you have to say.
Anyway, I just wanted to chime in and say thank you to all of the women that have contributed in this thread on your experiences.
I can’t remember where I read this, I think it was on the SDMB itself - a poster said that rape is to women is as robbery is to men, at least in terms of how men perceived other men as being threats, or potential threats, and the corresponding loss of the “feeling of safety”.
My point was this response that was apparently a lashback to the couple of men (or one in particular) who was out of line…
Gosh, do I really need to point this out to you, Tabby Cat?
“Most of them are pretty harmless, even the big stupid poorly trained ones who charge up to you out of the blue and shove their nose in your crotch and slobber on your hands and jump on you with their muddy paws. Those dogs have no intention of biting you or otherwise harming you in any way, they’re just (to their standards) being friendly.”
or
“Now imagine there are dogs everywhere you go, every bleeding day of your life. And if you aren’t 1000% enthusiastic about dogs running up to you out of the blue, people tell you you’re being silly and hysterical and alarmist about the risk of being bitten, even if you’re far more tired of scrubbing pawprints off your clothes than you are actually afraid of being bitten. And after all, it’s a compliment when a dog climbs and licks and noses and humps your leg–it means he likes you! And if he bites you when you try to shove him off your leg…well, it’s just an isolated incident and it hardly ever happens to anyone, so don’t get so bent out of shape about it.”
Scrubbing paw prints off of clothes? Climbing, licking. Putting their nose in your crotch? Humping your leg?
Come on. I am not going to reply to this again. If you’re not offended by this, great. I think it’s beyond hypocrisy and ironic to have posted it - it’s the reverse of and a ridiculous offset to any of the men who have posted acting out of line in this thread.
“That’s life as a woman?” I don’t know–I’ve NEVER felt that way around men. For me, men are just another facet of human beings. It’s really sad that people feel that way. I found the “men are dogs” comparison to be as disgusting as “Women are snakes with tits” that I read in a thread about a guy contemplating divorce.
You do realize that she wrote that specially in response to someone that wasn’t quite understanding the viewpoint and had brought up dogs
She was just expanding on that statement to try to make this viewpoint understood - she was NOT comparing all men to dogs and if that is all you got out of it, and the supporting replies, then you need to reread it as a response to the quote above.
I was there when it was written. The response CCC gave was way over the top, I’ll not bold for you the details in the response (that went on and on) that I felt were offensive. I thought Westley Clark was off base (along with several others in this thread). I also don’t agree that that justified the response given.
The comments bothered me, saw that the thread died down enough that I might venture an opinion. I will not turn this into a debate about it, either. We both see it differently, it should be left at that.
Sorry if it’s offensive, but that’s how a good number of us feel- hence the hear hears. Fact is, that’s a pretty darned good analogy for what it is like sometimes.
Just for the record, sentence number two is “Some of them are friendly, some of them are aggressive assholes, and some of them are just busy going about their doggy business and are pretty indifferent to you.”
But do we have to use the “dog” analogy? We can’t just say that some men are nice, some are assholes, without bringing in the animal metaphor? I mean, most people–men and women–are like that. But I’d be pissed if someone said that, “Women are snakes–most are harmless if you leave them alone, but some are conniving venomous creatures that will bite you.” If I’d be pissed at someone using that kind of language towards me, I’m not going to use it at someone who happens to be of a different gender.
I’m sorry, but if that were a metaphor for females, I would be highly offended by such a comment, no matter how many qualifiers it contained. I’m all about context, but I’m also all about considering the feelings of any potential reader.
At first I cringed when she used dogs as an analogy because a lot of women do say that “Men are dogs” and “men are pigs” but reading the post I got what she meant.
One of the things that helped me is having reasonable, intelligent women as friends. I think one of the problems men have with seeing the problem is that we all know unreasonable women who overreact about everything including perceived threats. And men think about those women when other women talk about their experiences. It isn’t fair that the majority of women who are being honest are dismissed because of the actions of a few idiots.
No, I’m not saying it’s the most exciting thing I’ve ever read about myself. But if lone cashew’s going to find it necessary to tell us all this is the worst thread he’s ever read because of that post, I’m going to point out what is and isn’t actually contained in it.
I don’t know, it’s a pretty good explanation to me. Particularly since there were several folks in the thread who just didn’t get what it was like- I’m certain that helped a person or two get what it is like.
It just reeks of hatred to me, though. Again, why do you have to bring “dogs” into it? What guy is going to say, “Yup, I’m’ a dog–a nice, slobbery dog–but a dog!” I don’t appreciate being called a snake or a minx or whatever obnoxious name misogynist guys want to use for women. Do you think referring to women in the way I mentioned above is acceptable? And if it pisses you off, can’t you see why most guys are going to be really pissed off by it?
For me, I just don’t see men and women this way at all. I see people who annoy me as just annoying people or assholes. I don’t see why we need to introduce gender.
But I think that’s reading more into it than is there. It just so happens that dogs are given this image in our society as big, slobbery, lovable oafs. Or, if we say, “Oh, Jim is such a DOG!” it has generally come to mean that he’s a scum bag (not sure why that’s the usage). They (the poster making that statement) didn’t mean it like that, just using an example all of us can understand, since we all have seen dogs in the streets. Even if you love dogs, you still are careful.
It’s not calling a man a dog. That would be wrong, just like calling you a snake or a mynx is fucked up, too.
This is using an example of a common occurrence in our experience to better explain a situation, not literally calling men a name. If you literally crawled on your belly everywhere or ate live mice, saying, “Freudian Slit is just like a snake!” wouldn’t really be derogatory, ya know?
Plus, I think it’s important to emphasize again, that no one was saying all men are like that. And no one is literally calling names, it’s just simile to make a point.
Dogs were used specifically because Wesley had said he was afraid of dogs. So CCL was using them to illustrate the problem, not because she believes all men are animals like dogs, but because it was an analogy that would mean something to the person she was talking to.
It baffles me how many of you seem to be missing that.
I want to leave this alone but I just can’t because I can’t tell if you’re joking or not.
Did you seriously post in a thread about women being raped that you’re an “oppressed male” or was it just a joke? I’m guessing it’s a joke because you used the sad smilie and I’m sure you can’t be that socially retarded.
You don’t equate being called a name with being raped, right?
It isn’t the first time I’ve heard this “dog” simile in describing men. It is used far too often as far as I’m concerned.
It seems as if the best “dog” we can be in this very common simile is the oafish “kinda good in his own clumsy way” dog. The “smart as a whippet, brave and loyal, will support you at all costs” dog almost never makes an appearance in this simile.
