My experience has been that the quality of people who are weeded out makes this a filter worth having. When I was Barbie, every shallow jerk wanted to wear me to a party on Saturday night. They had no interest in getting to know me, or in having any real discourse; and they would say anything, tell any lie, present any false front to achieve their goal.
Now, I don’t get many offers, but they tend to be from people who value the things I value, like intelligence, and integrity . . .
Different people talk to me, and people talk to me differently. I like it.
ETA: I keep forgetting to say that I didn’t answer the poll because it’s int he rpesent tense, and the experience you want to capture is about ten years old.
I’m late to the party MOL, but in my career area I have to say that yes, women who are very attractive are often not taken seriously. (Not me because I’ve never been attractive).
Like someone else mentioned upthread, I’ve known female engineers who had to play down their looks in order to get others to pay attention to their knowledge and skills rather than their hotness.
It’s so funny you say this, because the same damned thing happens to me EVERYWHERE I go. And I mean, you guys have seen me- I’ve got dark hair and green eyes, so it must not be a blonde thing. I think it’s because I smile at people if we make eye contact out in public. Why? Because it’s nice to smile at people, but goddamn, you’d think a smile was an invitation to hear every stranger in Target’s life freaking story. I don’t care, people!
I’m a big believer (ha, see? It’s witty because I’m fat :p) that how you put yourself together and present yourself is far more important in life than your weight. I’ve been working to lose weight for the last few months, but I’m about 240 lbs right now (I was 280 last May) and I’m 5’3’’. I constantly get comments about how beautiful I am, how sexy I am, etc. It’s not because I’m exceptionally beautiful (at all!), but it’s because it’s so rare for big girls like us to carry themselves with confidence, so I stick out. And yes, people have actually said to me that they love that I’m a big girl with confidence who has no problem being sexy/ acting like I’m beautiful. For me, I love the shape of my body (I’m fortunate that when I gain or lose weight, the shape of my body stays the same, it just gets wider), I work hard on doing my makeup nicely and having pretty hair, and I buy cute clothes that compliment and show off my body. When I go out, I carry myself with confidence and everyone else sees that. Trust me, it’s not that I’m particularly studly.
It reminds me of some article I saw years ago in one of those women’s magazines. . . I want to say it was Marie Claire. They took a picture of a slightly tubby, maybe size 14/16 girl (she wasn’t obese looking or anything, but she had a squishy tummy and a little love handle action going on) in a bikini and stuck it on two bilboards. One board said, “I think I’m beautiful, what do you think?” and the other said, “I think I’m ugly, what do you think?” Exact same picture. They put the bilboards a bit away from each other and polled the folks walking by. Now, I’m not pretending this is scientific or anything, but. . .the vast majority of people just agreed with whatever the sign said. I remember that it was something like 80% on the sexy sign said she was sexy, then a similar number for the ugly sign. Point is- for me at least!- that we have to be aware what we’re projecting out there in the world. If you think everyone is shunning you because you’re a lard ass (a lard ass! Eesh, what an awful way to think of yourself!), then the world will probably project right back at you what you’re putting into it.
I’m not pretending it’s all that simple. I realize there are other issues and nothing is perfect. But I know that my reality isn’t as it is because I’m some super model- I’m not. The only thing I do different than most big girls I see is that I own the shape of my body, I embrace it, and I love it.
So the reason I started this thread is because I was reading that woman’s letter and thinking, “Bull. Shit.” Then I buzzedly (that’s a word now) walked over to my computer and asked about it. Here’s the thing, and an explanation for my poll choices. In the very rare occurence that I hear anyone lament that their good looks have been an impediment to being taken seriously, the person has been entirely misled. They’re 60% of the time people who don’t recognize their own shortcomings, and 40% people who are dealing with run-of-the mill misogyny, but think it’s because they’re so gorgeous. In either case, these people’s egos are completely out of control, and have they lack any grasp on reality.
Is it possible that this behavior exists? I’m sure, but I’ve never, ever seen it, and every example I’ve ever heard from people in real life always results in me chuckling to myself at the utter lack of connection to reality. Now I’m not dismissing the experiences of other posters in the thread, as your mileage varies and all of that, just sharing what I’ve encountered.
I think most of what we’re experiencing is generalized misogyny. My engineering lady friends definitely don’t feel the love in their offices. (One of them recently had a filter/firewall installed for the company because…dudes were watching too much p0rn at work. How absurd is that? We all had a great laugh over it though.)
NinetyWt, do you feel you’re taken more seriously than the attractive women? If so, do you think it’s cause of your looks or competence moreso?
Yes. As the ‘ugly’ woman engineer, I was taken more seriously, IMO. Attractive women were seen as “fluff-headed”. I was seen as more serious - I didn’t wear makeup then, and wore matronly-looking clothes.
That was back when it mattered, yanno, since now I’m over 50 and things are different when you’ve got gray hair.
I think the difference is in which business sector you’re talking about, frankly. I can believe that it exists in some sectors and doesn’t exist in others.
Yes. For example, I can see that attractiveness would help a trial lawyer yet might hinder someone in, say, estate law or something where people want you to seem wise.
Not that trial lawyers aren’t wise, but they have to be persuasive and can use the boost of attractiveness.
Mom: black hair, brown eyes. Dad: balding, ash blond hair, grey eyes(1). Me: brown on brown. Middlebro: reddish brown hair, brown eyes. Littlebro: ash blond, grey. People we’ve never met before ask us for directions, hire apartments to us no deposit down despite their usual practice of two months deposit, say “here, please hold him for a minute” while giving us their toddler’s hand to rummage in their handbag for the baby’s water bottle…
Maybe I’m miscounting, but we seem to have a lot more people with experiences of getting dismissed/put down because people guess their age wrong than because of assuming they got where they are for being pretty. Am I miscounting? Because if I’m not, it’s perfectly possible to look 10-15 years younger than you are and still be considered a complete fartface by anybody who doesn’t have a minimum of 20 years on you; the kind who diss those they perceive as “too young” would still diss you if you were an ugly too-young.
(1) preemptive clarification in case anybody who hangs a lot around MPSIMS is wondering: not any more, but it was a valid description from 15 until he died.
I work in a profession where being small and/or attractive means you have to act meaner and harder to be taken seriously. When I was in training for this job, an instructor actually told all of the girls in my class that we had two options: bitch or slut. Well, I’m sure as hell not a slut, and bitch isn’t my favorite face either. I always tell people that I’m simply not a girl when I’m on the job. I’m just another uniform.
As far as rating my own attractiveness, I prefer not to do that… My self esteem is trash, as a few friends on here can vouch… but other people tell me fairly often that I am attractive.
I’m not sure it’s the blonde and blue that does it, so much as the ready smile. I’m blonde and blue, but I have a pretty surly countenance, much of the time. I rarely invite conversation with a glance, and tend to exude “leave me the f*ck alone” as much as I possibly can.
I’m 5’5, blonde over blue, and while I’m a little overweight now, I wasn’t before I had my son, and I still managed to back most people down with a well aimed distant stare. It’s all about how you carry yourself, I think, and how you want to present yourself. Personally and professionally, I simply prefer to keep a wide berth around me at all times. Job hazard.
Good post. My own body and situation is completely different than Diosa’s, but again and again I’ve found that people reflect what I project. It’s almost scary to me how much control I have over the way people react to me*. The way you look naturally and the way you dress and present yourself has a ton to do with it, but also your body language especially your posture, walk, and ‘carriage’, your expressions, and the way you engage with people. Smiling, making eye contact, and being the first one to be friendly is enough to make you several new friends a day.
*I say this as someone who chooses to frequently switch from ‘cold, tough bitch who doesn’t want to bother with your shit’ to ‘sweet young thing who wants to hear your life story’.
I think this is a really good point. If you’re hot and really good at your job, maybe you aren’t suffering. But how many hot girls are told they don’t even need a job, or even that having a better job than their (potential) boyfriend or husband could actually be a drawback, and so don’t invest in their future at all? How many get more attention, praise and job offers for their looks than their test scores and opt to concentrate on the former?
As someone else mentioned (maybe you again!), there’s also a world of difference between service jobs and jobs where your performance actually matters. I don’t doubt all my first jobs were largely due to my looks, but no one was losing a promotion because I got hired as a receptionist.
I don’t think my fantastically good looks have ever been a hindrance, at least not past a first impression. My awful personality pretty much cancels out any facial symmetry or fashion sense. But I have had to fight my own prejudices when it comes to attractive coworkers, have heard nasty things about smart, attractive friends by jealous people and horny men, and have heard mediocre people blame their failures on their looks. So there’s no doubt in my mind that it does exist.
I’m blonde and blue, but I have a pretty surly countenance, much of the time. I rarely invite conversation with a glance, and tend to exude “leave me the f*ck alone” as much as I possibly can.